00;00;00;01 - 00;00;17;13
Evan
So what did you do after high school stops? Well, I went to work at McDonald's like every dropout does. I stopped doing that. Then I was just doing nothing. I was wasting my days. I was just playing video games. And so I got a job working at a marco's pizza. And then three weeks into that job, just delivering pizzas.
00;00;17;14 - 00;00;31;00
Brandon
I get a call from the store owner there of the franchise who owned another franchise in coming and was like, hey, I need a general manager. I can't even manage myself. Like, I can't manage people. I can't I don't know what you're talking about.
00;00;31;03 - 00;00;54;13
Brandon
Welcome to the Think in Cursive podcast. I'm Brandon Leonard, and I'm so excited to share with you my circle of interesting people and conversation. Please like, subscribe and share your comments along the way. It helps our little channel more than you know. All right. Here we go. Evan Roberts visually sold my buddy. Thanks for coming on. We're just gonna kind of breeze right into this.
00;00;54;13 - 00;00;59;24
Brandon
And just like we've been talking off air, it's always interesting and easy to chat with you, man. Thanks for being here.
00;00;59;25 - 00;01;03;04
Evan
Thanks for having me. I'm loving the setup. I'm glad it's going well.
00;01;03;05 - 00;01;22;18
Brandon
Baby steps, man. Baby steps. It's coming together. Yeah. It's led to some interesting conversations so far. And even right before we turn on the cameras, I learned something new about you. I was like, I never knew that you didn't graduate high school. You dropped out of high school. In my mind. Evan Roberts is business owner, a tech guy, a like the Tesla guy, like, you know.
00;01;22;19 - 00;01;26;26
Brandon
Yeah, yeah, that's, you know, multi-instrumentalist, very sophisticated.
00;01;26;28 - 00;01;48;22
Evan
I'm not good at any instrument. I can. I can make my way around some instruments. So multi-instrumentalist is a you know. Yeah. But yeah. Didn't didn't finish, didn't finish high school. It was a weird time of my life in my teens. I ended up just switching schools a bunch and then didn't do any homework and then just started failing, and I left, so.
00;01;48;24 - 00;01;49;29
Brandon
That'll do it. Yeah.
00;01;50;01 - 00;01;50;11
Evan
That'll.
00;01;50;11 - 00;01;51;25
Brandon
Do it. They want you to do the work.
00;01;51;28 - 00;01;52;16
Evan
That'll do it.
00;01;52;16 - 00;02;02;24
Brandon
Yeah. Well, I can't say that I had a perfectly adjusted, smooth high school experience myself, but never picked that up from you. Not that it's relevant today, but.
00;02;02;28 - 00;02;20;24
Evan
Yeah, I mean, especially nowadays. Like, it's easier than ever to do your own thing and to, you know, especially if you're kind of geared that way. I think that's kind of why it didn't work out for me is because I wanted to do my own thing. I didn't want to do somebody else's plan for me. And now it's like, you know, you can learn anything online, you can YouTube, University, anything.
00;02;20;24 - 00;02;25;13
Evan
And yeah, so yeah, it's kind of how I, how I did it.
00;02;25;15 - 00;02;55;00
Brandon
It's funny, I, I've been called stubborn so many times in my life that now I just embrace it and I, I don't consider it stubbornness so much as conviction. And the world needs more of it. But, What? That's what I take away when you're like, I just. I knew I could do things my way. I just, you know, I see that element of, I don't know, maybe entrepreneurial, stubbornness, but, I see that in you, and and I cherish it.
00;02;55;00 - 00;03;10;05
Brandon
I'm like, yeah, yeah, you got it. Like, you're right because you don't have to go, follow the path that has been laid out for you verbally by your, you know, whatever kind of authority people were in your life. But, so. So what did you do after after high school stops?
00;03;10;05 - 00;03;32;21
Evan
Well, I went to work at McDonald's. Yeah. Like, every like every dropout does. It's like the stereotypical thing I went and. Yeah, I got a job at McDonald's. And I don't know that I it was not a good time, and so I, I left, then did a few other things. I ended up at a, doing pizza delivery at, where did I start?
00;03;32;21 - 00;03;55;09
Evan
That was Pizza Hut was my first one. Did Pizza Hut worked, like, 13 hour shifts? Like, just went crazy. Working and, and then I there was a gap between that pizza delivery job and funny enough, I was just kind of like living in my mom's basement. Right? Just doing pizza delivery. I stopped doing that, and then I was just doing nothing.
00;03;55;11 - 00;04;20;24
Evan
I was wasting my days. I was just, you know, playing video games. Whatever. But I came across Casey Neistat on YouTube. And I loved, I loved his stuff. And he had a video about laziness that came out. I forget what the title was. It was like I think it was like fat and Lazy was the title and it was just one of his vlogs.
00;04;21;00 - 00;04;41;19
Evan
And he was talking about how, you know, if people people are saying that they're bored all the time he was seeing on Snapchat was like, oh, just I'm bored. He's like, if people spent all the time that they spent bored doing something, imagine what they could build and imagine what we would have now. And just seeing his.
00;04;41;21 - 00;04;57;24
Evan
And he had another one that was like, you know, here's my work schedule. It's like, and, you know, from 4 a.m. m to 5 a.m., I'm working out. And then from 5 a.m. to six, you know, I'm getting breakfast ready for the kids, and I see the kids, and then I go work from this time. And this time, I sacrifice these hours of sleep so I can get a one more hour of work in it.
00;04;57;28 - 00;05;14;13
Evan
And I had never seen anything like that, you know, my dad was a crazy hard worker, but I never really talked about that with him. And so I saw this and I was like, what am I doing? And what am I doing with my life? You know, why am I just wasting away here? So I was like, you know what?
00;05;14;13 - 00;05;42;07
Evan
I'm going to go. I'm just going to get a job right now. Right now, today, I'm going to go get something and start doing it. And that was another pizza delivery job. I was like, well, what? Why? Why switch to something that I don't know? I stick to what I know. And so I got a job working in a marco's pizza, and then three weeks into that job, just delivering pizzas, I get a call from the store owner there of the franchise who owned another franchise and coming and was like, hey, I need a general manager up.
00;05;42;09 - 00;06;05;02
Evan
Mind you, I'm 20 years old at this point and I'm three weeks into this job and he's like, I need a general manager up here in coming. Would you do it? It's like, I can't even manage myself. Like I can't manage people. I can't I don't know what you're talking about. And I was like, okay, you know, we negotiated on payment or whatever.
00;06;05;02 - 00;06;21;17
Evan
And I was like, well, tell you what, if I can manage and deliver at the same time, I'll do it because I like the tips, right? Because delivering you get tips, you work more, you get tips. It's like, if I could do both somehow, then I'll do it. And so I manage that, that Marco's Pizza for a little while.
00;06;21;20 - 00;06;48;06
Evan
And that was a whole, a whole lots of interesting times there. And that was weird because I was the youngest person there, one of the youngest people there, and there were so many people that were older than me that I was managing there, and I didn't know it, but like, that was part of, you know, God shaping me and preparing me for doing what I'm doing now.
00;06;48;08 - 00;07;14;17
Evan
And I didn't know it at that time. I was agnostic at the time and, you know, it ended up not working out. But while I was there, I started doing what I'm doing now. I started doing real estate photography. I was kind of doing portraiture, a little bit of live music photography, you know, just playing around with with photography, I've always been more creative, like creative leaning.
00;07;14;19 - 00;07;36;02
Evan
And so I started doing that, and my dad called me during my lunch break at one time and was like, have you thought about ever doing real estate like photos of houses for sale? I'm like, no, what people do that, is that a thing? This was in 2015 and sure enough, I looked it up and some people did that.
00;07;36;02 - 00;07;52;12
Evan
It wasn't very popular. It was like a handful of people. There was one big company here doing it in Georgia, and I was like, no, I've never thought about doing that. So I looked it up. I looked at, you know, what people could make and, you know, if it was a possibility, I was like, well, I'll try it.
00;07;52;13 - 00;08;14;19
Evan
I'd rather do that than deliver pizzas. And so I, I, I started doing I started learning how to do it. Practiced at my house that I was I had a roommate at the time and I started cold calling real estate agents just like, hey, I'm a real estate photographer. Kind of, could I shoot your house for free? Could I shoot your listing for free?
00;08;14;19 - 00;08;34;21
Evan
I see you, don't you have cell phone pictures or not? Not any professional pictures. And it's a $600,000 house or $700,000 house. I was like, could I shoot it for free? And I think in my first day, one person said yes. And I was like, okay, like. And so I did so much research that night, like getting ready for it.
00;08;34;23 - 00;08;54;29
Evan
I went and did it and I was doing I went back and looked at these pictures recently, and I mean, they're so bad compared to now. They were just so I don't know how you know, but she she liked them enough. I mean, I guess they were better than cellphone pictures, right? And so she liked them enough and she was like, great.
00;08;54;29 - 00;09;21;14
Evan
I have another listing coming up, you know, here. And I'll tell you, I'll refer you to some of my colleagues. And that was kind of the start of it. And I somewhere along the way, you know, I was still delivering pizzas, but I would be like, you know, building the website during my lunch break or, you know, coming up with the pricing and the ordering system and trying to, you know, you know, build things during the time that I was not working, you know, delivering pizzas.
00;09;21;20 - 00;09;37;26
Evan
And that was kind of it. I hired my sister to answer phones, and then I would train her, like, on the way to a shoot on the phone, like, all right, like, we just got this email. What do I say? And so I'd be telling. All right, so now say this. No, don't say that. Say it like this and make sure you end it with warm regards.
00;09;37;26 - 00;10;04;23
Evan
And then, you know, and then I hired my buddy Will to do editing and, and then some more friends from high school to be my first photographers. And then I trained them, and that was it. I mean, it was didn't look back from there, just kind of just kept going. I was like, well, if you know who's the I don't know who's the who's the Uber or like Apple or Nike of real estate media, like who's the who's the go to simple.
00;10;04;25 - 00;10;15;06
Evan
Like everybody just uses them because it's great. It's predictable. It just works. And why can't I build that. And so that's what I set out to build from there. And that was ten years ago.
00;10;15;10 - 00;10;20;06
Brandon
And now you've got employees office space. Yeah. Whole package, a whole team.
00;10;20;07 - 00;10;24;15
Evan
Yeah. Lots of up and down ups and downs since the beginning.
00;10;24;15 - 00;10;32;10
Brandon
Well, that doesn't sound like your typical high school dropout. If you're building your website, a lunch break in between delivered pizzas.
00;10;32;11 - 00;10;36;05
Evan
And when I say building website, I was using Squarespace, so I wasn't coding, but.
00;10;36;12 - 00;10;54;07
Brandon
I don't disqualify it. Yeah. I mean, realistically, that's that's all you need now. I mean, yeah, it's everything you need is attainable. And I don't know that that says something about your grit and your resourcefulness and your willingness to just go out and fail. I mean, that's that's an uncommon predictor of success.
00;10;54;09 - 00;11;17;07
Evan
Yeah. Failure has been a huge part of it. Like just so many little failures. Mistakes. And so often now I look back at a lot of it. I'm like, if I only knew to do this, and I still find things today that I, I realize I'm like, why? Why didn't I see that sooner? Why, why haven't I this is so obvious.
00;11;17;07 - 00;11;26;08
Evan
Why didn't I do this? But you don't know what you don't know. And you have to try things and break them and learn from why they didn't work and just keep building.
00;11;26;08 - 00;11;44;19
Brandon
That's crazy man, I did not know your story. It's funny to that. In my mind, that's not that many failures to lead you to your business compared to my story. One time I added up all of the hustles I've ever worked. I mean, everybody that I got a W-2 or some kind of statement tax record of me working for them.
00;11;44;22 - 00;12;03;02
Brandon
I mean, and this was in my 30s, I did this I mean, it's probably. Maybe it was my 20s, but I had and I had worked like 30 some odd jobs. I mean, I've never been afraid to quit a job. I've never been afraid to apply to a job. And I always thought it was like, okay, well, if I want to make more money, I've got to provide more value.
00;12;03;03 - 00;12;17;14
Brandon
I've got to make it easy for them to pay me more money. So I've got to make them more money. And it's easy to kind of think about it like, okay, well, how can I get what I want by helping you get what you want? Yes. And realistically, that's the meat and potatoes of real estate and really business.
00;12;17;19 - 00;12;49;12
Brandon
Yeah. Anything. But yeah, I just thought about all my failures. And I had also played with that many bands, like 30 some odd bands I had played with and gigged with and, and, and all of my little ventures and side hustles that I've, you know, hats have tried to wear and so I, I don't know, I, I think, I think for me, instead of landing on this one thing that I do in perpetuity, which I, I mean, I do real estate and I still flip houses, but like, they're different, every transaction is different.
00;12;49;15 - 00;13;12;28
Brandon
And that variety keeps me satisfied. But at the same time, here we are starting a podcast and, I feel like I've always got to be creating something new, you know, so my path wasn't as straightforward. But I think that's pretty cool that even hearing this now, I can hear those attributes that make you that that differentiate you as a high school dropout.
00;13;13;00 - 00;13;20;24
Brandon
You know, it's just funny because I would have never, never assumed that about you, considering how I know you in the in the professional space, you.
00;13;20;24 - 00;13;30;20
Evan
Know, people out, like, ask me why I don't have my real estate license because I. I'm so deep in real estate, but I'm like, I can't get it. I don't even have a GED. Like, I have to go get my GED to go get a real estate license.
00;13;30;21 - 00;13;31;26
Brandon
You should never get it.
00;13;31;27 - 00;13;33;07
Evan
I know, I kind of.
00;13;33;09 - 00;13;34;24
Brandon
Like it's a badge of honor. Yeah.
00;13;34;25 - 00;13;39;00
Evan
It's if I ever have to, you know, if I ever have to, I will. But, you know, I.
00;13;39;02 - 00;13;41;16
Brandon
I don't think you're ever gonna have to do. Yeah.
00;13;41;23 - 00;13;43;23
Evan
I don't know. Yeah. Lord willing.
00;13;43;25 - 00;13;46;20
Brandon
For. For what? If you go back to McDonald's.
00;13;46;23 - 00;14;07;22
Evan
Yeah. Right. That's true, that's true. I did forget I did work for Chipotle for like two weeks in there somewhere. I did forget about that. So I did try it. Yeah. But it's interesting I think you have you have more tolerance for trying things than I do though because I was only in one band. I never joined a bunch of different bands, and I only worked for a couple different companies before I did this, and I've only done this since then.
00;14;07;25 - 00;14;19;16
Evan
So I don't know, it seems like you just you have more of that, willingness to, you know, shoot your shot than I do. I think I'm more I'm probably a little more risk averse. You know, it sounds like at least from that.
00;14;19;22 - 00;14;46;16
Brandon
Well, and on my mom's side of the family. We've got a long line of, hustlers and, you know, self-employed people. And, I don't know, it's just funny because my dad's mechanical engineer, and they they split early on. And I look back now and, you know, I was five when my parents split. And my dad has always played it safe, has always been the voice of, well, make sure you've got another job before you quit.
00;14;46;18 - 00;15;10;19
Brandon
Make sure you got, you know, keep your day job. Those, you know, fundamentally like it can be applicable or, you know, it can be sound advice in the moment. But it is so far from who I am and what I embrace naturally. I'm like, you know, Proverbs 281, the wicked flee, though no one pursues, but the righteous are as bold as a lion.
00;15;10;21 - 00;15;35;10
Brandon
I want to be confident. I want to look fear in the face, and I want to feel fear, and I want to go against it. And that's what this podcast makes me a little uncomfortable to have people in my space and have intentional conversation like we're present. Anything can be said. Yeah, I might look like, you know, silly for what I think or say, and it makes me feel vulnerable and maybe a little whatever, but I gotta lean into that.
00;15;35;11 - 00;15;57;15
Brandon
I'm like, oh, maybe this is something telling me to go into that. And, that's validation for me. But also just knowing that if you're going for a job interview and you're terrified, like, what if I don't get the job? When I learned that the person that has to do those interviews is, like, more afraid to actually pick the wrong person, they're so afraid, you know, that was freeing.
00;15;57;19 - 00;16;22;02
Brandon
And I graduated school with a finance degree in 2007, and the market was already starting to nosedive in the the areas that we that where I wanted to go, I wanted to go into like be a stockbroker or into real estate or like corporate finance and banking and all of those jobs were non-existent then. And so I went on 32 job interviews, like professional real like suit and tie job interviews before I got a job.
00;16;22;08 - 00;16;49;18
Brandon
So I got over that fear of interviewing. And I realized, looking back, this is all preparing me for, you know what I do now? It's like I make deals. I look people in the face and we we make deals like, and it's I love it. It's fun because I'm just it's my my comfortable blanket now because even when I was booking or when I was playing in bands, I was always the guy, for whatever reason, to book the gig.
00;16;49;20 - 00;17;19;07
Brandon
Like I was always the deal maker. And, I don't know why. I just kind of fell into this role, but I embraced it and now I'm like, I get to serve people in that, in that same avenue. But at the same time, when I'm talking with somebody, you know, wants to buy a house or sell a house because I flip houses independently with my own money, I have a level of confidence that I'm like, look, you can do it your way.
00;17;19;09 - 00;17;38;03
Brandon
If you don't, if you don't want to listen to me, that's okay. You don't even have to use me. But if we're going to do it, I do this with my own money. Like I would spend the money on the pre listing inspection. I would spend the money on fantastic media, whatever. I would clean the house. I, you know, all these things that are very practical.
00;17;38;03 - 00;17;56;29
Brandon
But these are regular objections that you hear from people that don't want to do much to sell their house. And they think that, well, anybody will buy it. But yeah, it's just funny how I'm like, well, you could do it your way, but I know through reps how to do this and I don't know people that really want to fight for control, like they want to grab the wheel.
00;17;57;06 - 00;18;16;24
Brandon
I've learned now to just let it go. Like, hey, you know what? Maybe we're not the right fit because I don't have to work with everybody that comes across, you know, like, and and there's a lot of real estate agents out there, and there's also a lot of mediocrity out there. And frankly, a lot of people get paid the same, whether you're, you know, an all star or a complete newbie.
00;18;16;25 - 00;18;41;11
Brandon
Yeah. You know, but it's funny for me, it's it's invigorating. Like the idea that every day I can be whoever I want to be. Yeah. That's that feels like freedom. You know we are a new creation and that's what like makes my soul feel exciting. And now I mean I'm an investor and I'm, I'm totally I'm, I'm holding on to my expectations much more loose than I ever have.
00;18;41;12 - 00;19;09;14
Brandon
And I don't expect to flip a thousand houses or like, be Johnny number one realtor. Like, all of this is temporary, and I could go in a different direction tomorrow if the opportunity pops up. And, like, that's freeing to me. Yeah. Because. Because the idea, as soon as I figure something out, like I'm in a new job, for example, you know, once I figure it out, that's like the beginning of me getting bored and me wanting to move on to the next thing.
00;19;09;16 - 00;19;38;02
Brandon
Yeah. So I was never going to make it an accounting. I got to find a degree. I landed my first job out of college in accounting. But like I'm just wearing this hat like playing this, this role trying to kind of fake it to our at least until 5:00. And I can go live like a normal person again, you know, but, with this idea of thinking cursive and play being a strategy in life, you're a husband, you're a dad, you're a musician, you're a creative.
00;19;38;04 - 00;19;50;05
Brandon
You've got your business owner, you're constantly reinventing yourself. And, how do you how do you play professionally and outside of work?
00;19;50;06 - 00;20;17;18
Evan
Yeah, I think for a while I struggled because, I felt like, you know, once I stopped doing so much of the actual photography or videography in the company, and I really don't play music that much anymore. I'm like, what? I'm a creative. Like, that's just how my brain functions. I just, I have to be thinking about new ideas and coming up with, I don't know, creative solutions for them.
00;20;17;20 - 00;20;44;08
Evan
I kind of realize and reframed that, you know, owning and operating a business is in and of itself creative and playful. Honestly, it's like I get to I get to go in every day and try to make this thing better, at least a little bit. And oftentimes it's huge changes. And I'm notorious for making wild changes on a dime.
00;20;44;08 - 00;21;04;03
Evan
And everybody watching that knows me knows that that's I'm notorious for that. But, but I get to I get to play with new ideas and test things and see if they work. And problem solve. And problem solving is a form of creativity, you know, like like seeing an obstacle in your way and figuring out how you're going to get around it is creative, and that's invigorating to me.
00;21;04;04 - 00;21;12;18
Evan
Like that is that that's the play, you know, like the actual work itself. Yeah. That's, that's that's just what I've seen.
00;21;12;19 - 00;21;25;06
Brandon
And it's funny because everybody that has ever played music has the voice. I can see that they also have the voice, that saying I should be playing more music, even when you're like, I don't really play that much music. Like almost sounded apologetic.
00;21;25;07 - 00;21;25;18
Evan
Yes.
00;21;25;18 - 00;21;54;04
Brandon
Right. You know, because it's a universal truth. Like, I mean, everybody in my house that has come through today, all, all musicians and I mean, I'm not any different. You know, I intentionally put my instruments where I have to walk past them so I will be more likely to play them in and all that. But I also heard a while back that it's so helpful to have another creative outlet outside of music, whether it's cooking or something unrelated.
00;21;54;06 - 00;22;29;19
Brandon
And that has really drawn my attention to how else are we playing, how can we scratch that itch where it feels like we can be inventive and, and just unique? I feel that too. And I mean, just in being able to call all the shots with how a home is flipped or how it's marketed or the description, I have a lot of fun with the way that if somebody was to isolate all of my all of the copy that I've put in out over the years, or just even the photography, a lot of times I got my my dog in the house, you know, like on the photography or some kind of unique
00;22;29;21 - 00;23;03;05
Brandon
feature. There has to be an element of play in it and just newness. And I don't know, that's kind of what this is all about. This is, prying the phone out of my hand and creating space to be present in something and allow myself to feel creative. And there's a there's a book called Thank You for Being Late that talks about how all of society's massive technological inventions have come as a result of disruption, and like just being outside of your normal routine.
00;23;03;11 - 00;23;06;04
Brandon
Yeah, and that's where the magic happens.
00;23;06;07 - 00;23;33;21
Evan
Yeah, totally. And and also a lot of, I mean, a lot of the technological advances we have is a result of people think like using, kind of I call it think like working backwards, like reverse engineering things like seeing a hole, seeing a problem, seeing a, you know, you know what? If this was possible. Okay. Well, if it's not limited by physics, then why isn't it?
00;23;33;23 - 00;23;54;15
Evan
How do we do it? How do we make it happen? And. Yeah. So I have a question for you. Because you're a musician too. AI is everywhere now, especially in music, right? Music creation. There's like these tools that will create a song for you. And I use the word create because it it technically didn't exist before, and it does now.
00;23;54;17 - 00;24;15;22
Evan
What are your thoughts on that? What are your opinions on on that whole side of things of of AI getting involved in music? I have the opinion that I can't be creative, like it can't be creative, because that's a I think creativity is a is a, you know, we are made in the image of a creative God that gave us that ability to be creative.
00;24;15;22 - 00;24;28;23
Evan
And we're creative like he is creative and we're storytellers like he's a storyteller. But AI is something different. It's it's it's artificial. So I don't know, that's my opinion. Or have you thought about that at all or.
00;24;28;28 - 00;24;53;01
Brandon
Yeah, absolutely. And it's funny because I have people sending me like Suno and whatever, you know, like this thing I did and I'm like, you know, on one hand, I think it's great if it disrupts people and, and then now they can feel like they're creating and it gives them permission to create. I think that that that could be really positive.
00;24;53;03 - 00;25;24;04
Brandon
Just because it's involving more people in creating. Yeah. That could be good. But I think to say that it is going to be, you know, a net detractor, I feel like that is fundamentally like a scarcity based mindset because realistically, everything every piece of art, every encounter, every performance, I feel like is so circumstantial and so finite in the moment.
00;25;24;06 - 00;25;50;00
Brandon
Like, you know, you think about the grunge movement in like the 90s and I, I'm from South Georgia, Albany, Georgia, and it seems like they were just like ten years behind everything. Because you're in the rural South, there's like no highways that go through the town. Everything was just late getting there. So I was all into grunge music and like Nirvana and and all that good stuff.
00;25;50;00 - 00;26;17;13
Brandon
And, oh, I had a cramp. I had a cramp in my hamstring. Oh, there we go. Okay. So I was all into it, and, I think, like, what made that movement so powerful? Well, it wasn't the combination of chords. It wasn't the fashion. It was it, you know, it was. It was the circumstance and the timing and the angst because, yeah, it was everything is a timing thing for me.
00;26;17;13 - 00;26;49;23
Brandon
That feels like a warm blanket, because that means that I don't have to carry the pressure of creating something that is so uniquely, once in a lifetime profound. I just got to say, I just got to be myself. And inevitably it's going to be magical to somebody at some point in time. Yeah, it's like I think about that in the context of AI thinking, well, AI is never going to be able to recreate the feeling you get when you hear a storyteller, you know, at Eddie's attic pouring their heart out.
00;26;49;23 - 00;27;16;27
Brandon
Because realistically, even the most powerful songs on the radio can't really typically, you know, replicate a live experience. I mean, you know, and and even if and I definitely had a lot of powerful, you know, interactions with music just listening. And, you know, I isolation. But, you know, who's to say that a I could ever actually get to that, that place.
00;27;17;03 - 00;27;34;03
Brandon
I mean, I don't know, maybe, maybe it will, but I'm going to be so biased. I mean, I don't know, I just feel like I can worry about the things that I can control. I can make space for the things that matter to me. And again. Yeah, this. My phone is off. During this. I'm in my sauna.
00;27;34;05 - 00;27;53;19
Brandon
I don't have my phone on me when I'm skateboarding. I don't have my phone on me. I'm doing jiu jitsu. I mean, it is almost like a prerequisite things that I'm going to do I need to find ways for because. Because I gotta, like, claw this thing out of my hand, you know? I mean, I have so many ongoing conversations and texts and emails with people all the time.
00;27;53;24 - 00;28;25;21
Brandon
It's crazy, you know that. And that's not even really talking about, like, our propensity to doom scroll and just distract yourself. It's tough and it's it's frightening because it feels more pervasive than ever. It's more addictive than ever. And as I intentionally try to remove my own addictions and vices out of my life, I don't drink anymore. I'm trying to find more quality ways to actually, like, teach my kids how to have fun without, you know, poisoning themselves with either mindless, you know, screen time or, or substances.
00;28;25;23 - 00;28;48;16
Brandon
You know, I feel like, I don't know, I'm in a place. And I've always been kind of an idealistic guy. But now with being a dad and having daughters, and I feel like I've got so much, so much more responsibility to actually walk the walk. Yeah. You know, versus just say, say the right thing, that it's, I don't know.
00;28;48;16 - 00;28;56;16
Brandon
It's been pretty transformative, man. And it just keeps going. I'm going to keep chasing it. But that was a long, winding road about AI and music.
00;28;56;22 - 00;29;13;28
Evan
But bit of a tangent. I know. I just I was curious about, you know, I mean, I, I don't know, it's it's fascinating to, to sort of watch from a distance like I don't, I don't really mess with that kind of, you know, that kind of use of it. And but I think to like, people can use it as a, I mean, think about Auto-Tune.
00;29;14;00 - 00;29;31;23
Evan
Yeah. Right. It's like, that's not you, you know, think about a drum machine. You're not hitting that drum. Yeah. You know, I mean, it's but you're still, you're using that to, to make something. Yeah, I don't know. I don't think it's as, I don't think it's as much of a issue as a lot of people make it out to be.
00;29;31;24 - 00;29;32;29
Evan
Yet I don't know.
00;29;33;00 - 00;29;38;25
Brandon
Well, in the context of when people are buying a house. I don't want to make this all about real estate, but.
00;29;38;26 - 00;29;41;08
Evan
But we're both in it, so let's do it. Yeah.
00;29;41;10 - 00;30;00;01
Brandon
It's very recent. I spent all weekend real estate. Yeah. And when you're searching for a place to live, you have all this criteria that you have deemed is very, very necessary. By the time you close on the house, you're not you don't have that same criteria. You know, a lot of the stuff that you thought was so important.
00;30;00;03 - 00;30;15;28
Brandon
Yeah, it's completely negligible and just, you know, irrelevant at this point. And I kind of feel like that. I mean, with all of the music that has been created with AI, how much have you gone back and relisten to Out of Desire?
00;30;16;02 - 00;30;17;04
Evan
Yeah. Right, right.
00;30;17;06 - 00;30;35;21
Brandon
You know, I can think of. Like what? Like the one guy. The one guy that's always like, oh, imagine if whatever lightning crashes was a classic soul song. Here we go. And he's, like, singing along with it. And like, that's the one song I probably gone back and relisten to because it's awesome. It's, you know, AI, but. Right.
00;30;35;22 - 00;30;42;08
Brandon
Other than that. But the the emotional connection came from the real song by a live that was that I heard in middle school, you know.
00;30;42;10 - 00;31;01;29
Evan
Yeah. Minds me reminds you of a specific time with a specific feeling. Yeah. There's so many songs like that that just. Yeah, it's hard to describe, I used to. What's funny is when I was playing music, when I was a teenager, in the cover band, I music was my idol 100%. It was like an idol to me.
00;31;02;01 - 00;31;26;06
Evan
And I didn't come to that realization. Popular one. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, I didn't come to that realization until like seven years ago, like, not not long ago, but I was talking about it with my wife and I'm like, I think it was just like total idol to me because I would like it was my refuge, you know, during a crazy time in my life and my, you know, teenage years, like, everything, everything wrong is happening in your, in your eyes.
00;31;26;08 - 00;31;49;29
Evan
And it was I mean, I was like, oh, yeah. It's like it's like the universal language of mankind. And it's like, you know, I was very I was like, really idolizing it. But I think it is kind of amazing what it does with connecting you with a certain feeling, a certain picture, like songs have pictures in your mind associated with them.
00;31;49;29 - 00;32;10;09
Evan
How cool is that? Like a totally, you know, only audible form of media, even paintings, to like all of those, the fields of art, just how they pull things out of you that you feel or you remember. It's like it can be used for bad and good, you know? Really. I mean, you can make it an idol or you can appreciate it for what it is.
00;32;10;09 - 00;32;19;24
Evan
But, yeah, I think about that all the, all the time because that was my whole world growing up was, was music and and Halo three. But but yeah.
00;32;19;26 - 00;32;45;08
Brandon
It's funny. I, I mean, I could totally relate to just basing your whole identity in it. I mean, it's funny. And in that small town of Albany, Georgia, all my friends could at least carry, carry themselves through a whole song on some instrument. We all played music, we all got together every week and jammed. And we and we all had multiple bands in high school, which now I realized it's really rare, you know?
00;32;45;08 - 00;33;03;23
Brandon
But, my sister in law, who grew up in New Mexico, all her friends, they went out and danced and they could all dance. And that was their thing. We played music like, we we were in the jam band thing, you know, Dave Matthews, Dave Matthews and fish and all that stuff. And that was. Beaufort dude, right? Yeah, yeah.
00;33;03;26 - 00;33;05;19
Brandon
None of us ever got to that, that level.
00;33;05;19 - 00;33;09;24
Evan
But you. Do you know about his thumper in his drum throne?
00;33;09;28 - 00;33;11;05
Brandon
Oh, I see one of the chairs.
00;33;11;06 - 00;33;17;18
Evan
Yeah. So it was like it would kick him instead of a instead of a click track in his ears. He'd have, like, an actual click track in his in his drum throne.
00;33;17;22 - 00;33;18;28
Brandon
That's a good idea.
00;33;18;29 - 00;33;20;28
Evan
Isn't that cool? I had never sorry.
00;33;21;04 - 00;33;26;11
Brandon
I've seen no, I've seen like the the the watches that will vibrate as a metronome.
00;33;26;11 - 00;33;32;12
Evan
Now I feel like I would get confused with that and the vibration of my hand hitting the drum, but maybe that hadn't.
00;33;32;12 - 00;33;50;15
Brandon
Heard about it on your foot or something. But yeah. And then I also heard about, drummers. There's a company out there that makes these drum thrones with an integrated subwoofer that, you know, so you can feel your own kick drum. Yeah. And I'm like, that's pretty cool. I think the guy from Maverick City has one of those.
00;33;50;17 - 00;33;51;05
Brandon
But,
00;33;51;08 - 00;33;54;08
Evan
That's cool. Sorry. You were, you were saying Dave Matthews Band fish.
00;33;54;10 - 00;34;14;22
Brandon
Well we all played music. So in high school we all that was it was a, it was a community like I don't know that was the glue. And we all played in the like the, the battle of the bands in our high schools and we go, you know, and we actually had gigs and in high school and we all played at the train depot, the train station in Albany, Georgia.
00;34;14;22 - 00;34;32;12
Brandon
And, it's so funny because I got, I had to dig out some pictures, but we were all trying on hats and like, testing out who we wanted to be. And like, that was a part of just becoming a adult, you know? And I, I held on to that hard core all the way through college and played with all these bands.
00;34;32;12 - 00;34;52;28
Brandon
And we became and and College of Art, Austin State. I, I had this band called Hit and Run and we were the we became one of the premiere, like kind of party bands and frat bands in that town. And it's so funny because it like, next thing I know, we're opening up for Vanilla Ice and we're on like the the The Real World MTV cast is there.
00;34;52;28 - 00;35;12;21
Brandon
And it's like, what? What is this? This is in Valdosta, Georgia. And it just started, it just became more and more of a thing that I was like trying to balance while also thinking, what's my exit strategy? You know, how am I going to get a job? And like, you know, I've always heard, you know, well, you got to go to college and get a good job, you know?
00;35;12;22 - 00;35;24;20
Brandon
And it's funny because now I've never had less faith in formal education than I do now. Yeah. And here I'm sitting across from a business owner of high school.
00;35;24;22 - 00;35;26;10
Evan
Forcing it. Yeah.
00;35;26;12 - 00;35;50;10
Brandon
You know, like a lot of my self-employed friends, like, they didn't really gain a whole lot from college and university, and I'm trying to think about it, too. Okay, well, I'm a dad. What do I want? My what do I want a really, like, model for my kids, too? Because, yeah, you can learn anything, you know? And I'd rather help my kids invest in real estate than, you know, pay their way to go to whatever college they want.
00;35;50;12 - 00;36;06;14
Evan
Yeah. I think a good part of what comes out of college, though, is the people that you meet and stay life lifelong friends with, like they've become part of your network and the people you do things with and stay updated with and share projects with and things like that. I think there's there's definitely value there, but not for the price that you pay for it.
00;36;06;20 - 00;36;16;21
Evan
Yeah, I mean, obviously if you're going to become a doctor, a lawyer or something, there's a reason you need to go to school. But yeah, by and large it's it's not worth the price you pay. You know, there's other, other ways to do that.
00;36;16;22 - 00;36;21;27
Brandon
Well, let me ask you this. Do you have any lawyer or doctor friends? Yeah. Are they happy?
00;36;22;00 - 00;36;26;04
Evan
Oh yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah yeah yeah.
00;36;26;05 - 00;36;48;20
Brandon
Because they are probably maybe they're more of the exception than the rule, but, I think we're all just wired so differently. And especially I'm so eager. I got a buddy of mine that, he's a, he's a doctor, and he's going to come on this. And I want to ask so many questions about all the Covid stuff.
00;36;48;22 - 00;37;02;05
Brandon
Yeah. Because it seems like everybody has this, you know, this veil they won't lift, and they're sworn to secrecy. And I feel like attorneys are kind of like that, too, because I always want to know the thing that they're not willing to talk about. Right. You know, like, what's the real story?
00;37;02;06 - 00;37;03;12
Evan
You got to sign an NDA first.
00;37;03;13 - 00;37;28;29
Brandon
Yeah, it might have to, but yeah, it's just kind of fascinating because I want to I always want to see behind the curtain, you know, and and my experience in accounting didn't help because I always got to see the value and the, the math behind the company structure, you know. And I was just always curious, like, well, who's contributing the most, who's worth the most, who is doing what, and why do we pay them that way?
00;37;29;02 - 00;37;46;25
Brandon
Because the side effect of having so many jobs and so many hustles, as we were never shy about asking, what was this pay like? What do you make over there? You know, and I realize, you know, a lot of people don't talk about money like that, but, I was never really. That's just my family on my mom's side.
00;37;47;00 - 00;38;11;05
Brandon
They all just got all up in your business from day one. And, so I was always pretty desensitized to that, but it kind of made me wonder. I'd just be so curious, because I see a lot of people that choose these professions teachers to. And at some point, it just seems like they stop thinking for themselves and they somewhat become indoctrinated.
00;38;11;05 - 00;38;34;22
Brandon
And yeah, I got certain minds that are popping up in my head that, you know, again, I can't really form rules or generalizations based on limited experiences, but my gatherings is, you know, show that people can just so easily stop thinking for themselves and realizing that, hey, all of this is optional. You know, that's the beauty of being self-employed.
00;38;34;22 - 00;38;50;29
Brandon
Like, if I want to go and work for someone else, I can do that. But if I want to chase this dream of independence and it is a responsibility, of course, to like, yeah, get up and try to move the needle a little bit every single day in perpetuity. But that's kind of how we're wired.
00;38;51;03 - 00;39;19;29
Evan
Yeah, totally. Like having the having the the options, you know, is, is a big one. It's I feel like now it's, it would be easier to get a job after I've employed people because I know both sides of it, you know, and a lot of it to a lot of hiring, firing, quitting, you know, all of that. And so I feel like it'd be easier now to, to shift if I needed to based on what I've learned.
00;39;19;29 - 00;39;31;25
Evan
And I'd be able to really the biggest thing is I'd be able to provide more value to whoever I worked for because I, I know more now. I know, I know both sides of it, I guess, you know. Yeah.
00;39;31;27 - 00;39;54;04
Brandon
When I was turning around in the band in my late 20s as the drummer, learning how to sing in a harmony group and kind of getting over my fear of singing late in 20, you know, I was trying to squeeze all of my creativity and identity out through that band. Right? So all my songwriting was filtered through what could be published and performed in that band.
00;39;54;06 - 00;40;18;04
Brandon
And eventually I came to the realization that I would rather do my own thing, even if it wasn't as good, so I could have my own expression, because it wasn't just a job. It was my identity, my creativity. All of my, all of me. Yeah. You know. And now I went out. I did my own thing. I got over my fear of singing, and then I lead and playing.
00;40;18;06 - 00;40;38;03
Brandon
Learned how to play enough guitar to to, you know, get through those three hour bar gigs and whatnot and finding my own balance and identity in that, independent of being a supporting musician. Now, when I'm filling in or playing drums or whatever, I can be such a, such a much better supporting musician because I know the weight.
00;40;38;07 - 00;40;38;23
Evan
Yes.
00;40;38;28 - 00;40;57;24
Brandon
You know, you know what it's like to have to be the tech guy and the lead singer and schmooze everybody. Yeah, it's a lot of stress. And now I'm like, I got you. Like, I can I can make this so easy. I think the same thing if I ever went and worked for somebody else. Like realizing, oh, all this just turns off when I leave.
00;40;57;25 - 00;41;05;00
Brandon
Like, I don't have to think about it 24 over seven. That idea sounds nice, but realistically, I know I'm never going to work for anybody else again.
00;41;05;01 - 00;41;22;18
Evan
Grass is always greener. Yeah, yeah, yeah, those thoughts have crept up to for me, you know, over the years like man I just, I never I you don't stop. You don't stop. When you own a business you don't stop. It's there's no clocking out. It's just it's 24 over seven. Yeah. And then on top of that got to be present with the kids.
00;41;22;18 - 00;41;25;03
Evan
You got to be a husband, dad.
00;41;25;06 - 00;41;26;20
Brandon
Well, you don't have to be.
00;41;26;22 - 00;41;30;22
Evan
Well when you are. You do when you already are. You do.
00;41;30;25 - 00;41;32;04
Brandon
If you care about your family.
00;41;32;07 - 00;41;34;16
Evan
Oh, I see what you're saying. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
00;41;34;23 - 00;41;36;03
Brandon
A lot of people choose not to.
00;41;36;04 - 00;41;39;14
Evan
That is true. That is tragically true. Yeah, yeah.
00;41;39;20 - 00;42;04;22
Brandon
And it's not, contingent upon certain, you know, financial situations. You know, there's a lot of people with money that prioritize, whatever career or self over family. And, yeah, I do think that it seems like a lot of guys our age, dads our age are doing a better job than maybe the previous generation as far as raising kids.
00;42;04;25 - 00;42;17;10
Brandon
But how do you manage it? Because all right, so you've got you got employees, you got a lot going on. You got two little kids, got a wife. I imagine you're working in your office most days. Right? So you're.
00;42;17;14 - 00;42;34;12
Evan
Yeah, I try to. I try to work from home thing for a while. And it just didn't work for me because it's so tempting for wife kids to just. Hey, dad, how you doing? You know, or if I'm home, it's like, hey, I'm working on this thing. Could you come help me for a second? Like, in between meetings or whatever?
00;42;34;15 - 00;42;51;12
Evan
In between. And of course. Yeah. I'm here, why wouldn't I? And so it was. It's hard to keep it separate as much as I wanted to. I have a buddy who who works from home, but he has, like, a garage apartment. And so it's technically he goes to work, even though it's like 30ft.
00;42;51;13 - 00;42;51;28
Brandon
It's enough.
00;42;51;28 - 00;43;14;16
Evan
Separation, but it's a separation still. I'm like, that's the ideal. You know, if if I could do that, that would be that would be great. But yeah. So having to having a, a space, an office away from the house is definitely, it helps me because for a while there, for years, I was kind of, you know, as a business owner, I don't clock out.
00;43;14;17 - 00;43;34;02
Evan
And if you work from home as a business owner, you really don't clock out, because where you work is where you live and where you live is where you work. And that was so hard for me for a while that I couldn't separate it. And, it was either either balls were getting dropped or in either in either area, either personal life or business.
00;43;34;09 - 00;43;51;15
Evan
And so separating it as was kind of the move for me. And that's that's been, you know, what's what's worked for me. But I'm in the office. I try to get it in the office at eight, and then I try to leave by 5 or 530. Doesn't always work out that way. Like, every once in a while, I'll have to text Alex and be like, it's it's.
00;43;51;20 - 00;44;09;22
Evan
And she knows, like, I'll get into these modes every once in a while. We're like, I'm on a, I'm on something, I'm on to something, and I gotta finish it. You know, there's I'm wired that way. Where if I start working on something and I can see a finish line, I have to get to it. And I can't stop until I'm, I'm, I get all the way to that.
00;44;09;25 - 00;44;25;19
Evan
And she knows that. And which is so amazing. Like, she's just such a blessing. But I'll tell her, like, hey, it's one of those times I'm going to be like, okay, cool. You know, that's you do what you got to do. But I try to minimize those when I can. But I'm, I'm a really bad planner.
00;44;25;19 - 00;44;50;16
Evan
I'm a really bad, like, to do list project management. I, I like working where my attention and inspiration pulls me, which is not good. And it can't be good sometimes, like every once in a while that it'll, like some sort of eureka moment will happen because of that, because I'm not rigid in my schedule. But then some things, some balls get dropped because I don't have that rigid schedule.
00;44;50;16 - 00;45;10;08
Evan
So I still haven't found the perfect hybrid for me. But, you know, I try to take Saturdays off. I consider them part of me. Says it's irresponsible for a business owner to not work on Saturdays or like six days a week at least. And part of me says like, well, just you have to. That's part of owning a business.
00;45;10;08 - 00;45;28;22
Evan
That's part of the perks is that you can you can pull back if you need to. But then I take the Lord's day off every week. I don't I don't work on a Sunday. That's like I unplug. That's family time. We're a church, you know, that's. And I think having that first day of the week be that reset for me every week is helps a lot too.
00;45;28;24 - 00;45;32;27
Brandon
So are you doing like a digital detox on the weekends?
00;45;32;28 - 00;45;49;13
Evan
I try to, but I, I don't, I don't I just found this app though called shift Shift Your Phone. And it's like there's like those ones like Opal and these other apps that say that it'll stop your screen time, but there's always a way around it. You just delete the app and then there you go. You're fine. Yeah, and I haven't tried it yet, but I've seen it.
00;45;49;14 - 00;46;04;12
Evan
And what it does is it connects to your computer and it's a computer app, and you plug your phone into it and you hit shift and it literally just removes those apps from your phone. I don't know how it works, but as soon as you unplug your phone and it's in shift mode, there is no way out of it.
00;46;04;12 - 00;46;23;27
Evan
You cannot get out of it unless you plug it back into your computer and hit on undo. And I'm like, that looks really appealing. I've played with the dumb phone idea and like, you know, the unplugging stuff, but really it's just a matter of self-control and just saying, like, I'm not going to use it today, but I try to I try to minimize it as much as possible on, on the Sabbath, if I can.
00;46;23;28 - 00;46;29;22
Brandon
That book over there, the ruthless elimination of hurry. I don't know if you've ever checked that out.
00;46;29;23 - 00;46;30;05
Evan
No.
00;46;30;06 - 00;47;05;19
Brandon
But that changed my perspective on a lot of stuff, including the Sabbath. And after reading that book, my wife said, you know, you're a different man after reading this book. I can't plug it enough. And it's funny. I turned off notifications on my phone. I stopped checking emails, just really starting to create distance with all of these things that are self-imposed hurry in my life, and this concept of anything that has to be pushed, shoved, smashed, like micromanaged isn't Jesus.
00;47;05;19 - 00;47;22;26
Brandon
And to stop forcing it, that was a total just to me because I'm a pusher. When people are asking me to teach them something, I'm usually like, you just figure it out like the good ones. Just go and figure it out. Like, I don't need to teach you, you know? Like, that's why I probably never been a leader.
00;47;22;28 - 00;48;01;04
Brandon
Like a like a manager of many people. Because I'm a self starter, you know, and unfortunately or whatever, for whatever reason, there's just not we're all built differently. And I, I remember, teaching or somebody asked me when I was, this is back in like the Covid heydays of real estate to help them become an agent. And I was trying to teach people how to be self starters who had no experience when I really was trying to also get everything I could on the table, like run my business.
00;48;01;07 - 00;48;25;11
Brandon
And I just said yes because it just seemed good. People trusted me with their career trajectory. I should honor that trust, and I just had to learn that I'm an operator, I'm a doer, and this isn't my season to, like, be the cheerleader and the coach with everybody. And plus, Chris just got, you know, pregnant with our first at that time, you know, I was flipping houses.
00;48;25;11 - 00;48;26;23
Brandon
It just had way too much going on.
00;48;26;23 - 00;48;31;03
Evan
So what is the what is the moral of that book? What is the overarching theme?
00;48;31;04 - 00;48;49;09
Brandon
That was a big part of it. Just the fact that anything that has to be pushed and pulled and shoved like, that's not Jesus. And this concept of, you know, it's a it's a walk. It's not a run. It's not about pace. Like there's just a shift. Like an internal shift.
00;48;49;09 - 00;48;50;07
Evan
Where contentment.
00;48;50;11 - 00;48;58;17
Brandon
Yeah. Well, and just it's a slow it's a slow roll. It's it's a it's a walk with the Lord. It's not a sprint, you know.
00;48;58;18 - 00;48;59;06
Evan
Yeah, yeah.
00;48;59;08 - 00;49;20;10
Brandon
And this whole idea of, you know, just slowing down and start carving distance to make, I mean, just. Yeah, just start making room for God in your life and see what happens. I mean, in that, actually, since we're talking about that in 2021, my father in law challenged me to read the Bible in a year and to get together once a week and talk about everything.
00;49;20;11 - 00;49;45;21
Brandon
And I was not an avid Bible reader. It was 20, 21. My real estate boom, like business was booming. You know, we were making a lot of money. I was this is when I lived in this neighborhood, Heritage Farms, and I had bought the first three houses in the neighborhood that the church used to own. I bought them off market, and I was flipping all three of them at once in my neighborhood.
00;49;45;23 - 00;50;02;18
Brandon
And I was stirring up a lot of drama because everybody thought I was going to, like, turn them into slums or something. And it was just an A, and there's always, you know, yeah, personalities that are going to come against you. And there was a lot of opposition. So then my father in law is like, hey, what are you coming?
00;50;02;19 - 00;50;21;20
Brandon
You know, read the Bible with me, he says, for an hour and an hour with Alan Grodd is like three hours. And, but he this guy's been so consistent with at time, you know, with the Lord for, like, I mean, every single day for like, 40 plus years. So I was like, all right. You know, he's challenged.
00;50;21;20 - 00;50;39;05
Brandon
I try not to back down from challenges. And he challenged me and I was like okay, this is going to be a huge sacrifice for me because I'm probably in like one of my most lucrative years ever. And here I am going to be carving out several hours per week, not just in face to face time, but also all of the reading.
00;50;39;07 - 00;51;07;04
Brandon
And that year my income tripled. I made time for it. I probably can recall like less than zero 1% of what I read that year. But I also learned that, you know if you just get like 1% of it, it can be totally life changing. You know, and starting realizing that if I just start making space and just start slowing down, you know, God's math is not like our math, you know, thank God, you know?
00;51;07;05 - 00;51;24;29
Brandon
And Exodus says, you know, those that curse me will be cursed for 2 to 3 generations, but those that praise me will be blessed for a thousand generations. And thank God that our math is is different from his math. But I just started realizing that if we just just leave space for God to show up, things will happen.
00;51;25;00 - 00;51;45;07
Brandon
And I've always, you know, I've always been math and science oriented. I'm a doer. I'm a I'm not a huge planner. But all of that sounded just way too woo woo for me until I started seeing it in my life. And then I was like, okay, it ain't crazy if it works, you know, like all of a sudden now I've got real, tangible proof that God is honoring me, making space.
00;51;45;10 - 00;52;00;03
Brandon
I mean, he presented me with a challenge through my father in law, I said yes. Yeah. I mean, there's just example after example of him showing up, giving me an opportunity to accept or decline. And when I accept, amazing things happen.
00;52;00;05 - 00;52;26;18
Evan
Yeah, it's amazing when when you're faithful like that, what fruits come of it? Yeah. You know, being I heard somebody, Alex read a book recently. I forget which one it was, but the author said, just to just to read through Scripture and for a certain amount of time every day. And don't try to like if you if you feel like.
00;52;26;19 - 00;52;46;03
Evan
Wait, what was that? I don't understand. What is that? Don't don't try to, like, micro analyze everything you're reading. And just read. And then you'll be amazed what comes to mind in your day to day in your subconscious, and what he'll use through his spirit after reading that is just just soaking it in and just being in it.
00;52;46;06 - 00;53;04;20
Evan
You don't have to like, like, like going through it in a year. You're not like you said, you remember consciously point 1% of it or whatever, but you were in it and it's there and you did ingest it. I thought that was really cool way, because I tend to do that, you know, when I read them like, okay, what I got to understand, what is that?
00;53;04;23 - 00;53;19;05
Evan
What does that mean? And what does that cross-referencing and what was that prophecy that was this, you know, and trying to analyze it. But then I end up being like, okay, well, I don't want to read today because I know I'm going to get into the, you know, into the nitty gritty of it. So I thought that was kind of cool.
00;53;19;07 - 00;53;19;29
Evan
I had never heard that.
00;53;20;00 - 00;53;36;22
Brandon
Well, in some days you don't get any kind of a ha moment. But I also think that God honors the obedience and just making space for it. And if you try to read it like a book, like you're a scholar and you're trying to learn from this thing and you're going to retain it the same way you read any other book.
00;53;36;24 - 00;53;56;22
Brandon
Yeah, you're missing the point. It's more like a divine, like soaking. Like you're supposed to just go and be and you're reading the pages, but really, you're being with God and you're letting him permeate your life and you're making space for him to talk to you, and maybe even more so than just meditating alone. But what's the quote?
00;53;56;23 - 00;54;22;02
Brandon
Like? All of man's problems stemmed from the fact that he can't sit alone in the room with his thoughts. I don't know, I'm always trying to find ways to be a little bit more honest with myself. I feel like we're so damn good at lying to ourselves and justifying and rationalizing. Anything and everything is so circumstantial. There could be a reason for every action out there that could be legitimate, that we just could never fathom.
00;54;22;08 - 00;54;48;06
Brandon
And I know that I'm speaking in, you know, abstract generalizations, but that's kind of how I feel with all things divine, with all things art, with all things expression or connection are just being present. I feel like it's all the same and we can't really comprehend it. Like, if we could try, we could try, but I'd rather spend the rest of my life chasing those moments than trying to defend and explain them to other people.
00;54;48;06 - 00;54;50;28
Brandon
I just want to live them, you know?
00;54;51;01 - 00;55;16;29
Evan
See, on the opposite, I love, I love debating, I love defending, I love apologetics, like, I'm just like, totally. I just yeah, I love I don't know why, I don't know why, but I've always been geared that way. I've always loved like that's kind of what got me into, you know, into, you know, interested and open to Christianity in the first place was watching apologetic kind of content and street debates and formal debates.
00;55;16;29 - 00;55;27;08
Evan
And I'm just I can't get enough of it. I love debates, I love defending it. I love I don't know what it is, but that's just me. And do you not like that? Do you not enjoy those kids? Those kinds.
00;55;27;08 - 00;55;38;10
Brandon
Of I used to. I, went through a time where I was really enjoying all the Ravi Zacharias stuff and, and, you know, the what's the author's name? Who did a case for Christ? That guy.
00;55;38;11 - 00;55;39;22
Evan
Case for Christ.
00;55;39;24 - 00;56;01;09
Brandon
Have you read that one? He also was turned into a movie. But this is the true story. And now the guy's a, he's a theology professor in Texas, but he was agnostic. His wife was Christian. I mean, he was a the editor for this magazine. And he was like, I'm going to use my journalism skills to prove that this is all BS.
00;56;01;11 - 00;56;25;19
Brandon
Yeah. And then he got saved in the process because he started realizing, oh, this really did happen. Oh, there was more eyewitnesses here then things that were validated in history that we don't even question. And all of these things, I do love that information, just being able to talk through it. It's funny because I am thinking about an encounter that I had with an old bandmate who I looked up to professionally.
00;56;25;19 - 00;56;49;18
Brandon
He actually was the guy that taught me about self-directed IRAs and told me I could vote my old 401 into a self directed IRA and start flipping houses with it like he told me that. And then I went and did it. And now I've got my own like, separate independent career because of that. You're like, there was a lot of things that happened behind the scenes, and I did a lot of work to to stabilize that.
00;56;49;18 - 00;57;16;29
Brandon
But he gave me that idea financially. So I looked up to him a lot, and, and I circled back like ten years later, I was like, hey, let's grab coffee or whatever. And and in the meantime, like, my heart is overflowing with gratitude. My daughters, my wife, my career, everything is just kind of blooming. And I've had all these real personal God experiences that can't just like scientifically be explained to people.
00;57;17;05 - 00;57;42;24
Brandon
And I don't really care. That's the that's the difference. It's like, I don't really care if you don't believe because I have experience like this. You can't take that away from me. But this guy. And so I was coming from that place. I met it with him. He was going through a fiery divorce with his wife of a long time and a lot of assets to fight over and a lot of pain to process.
00;57;43;02 - 00;57;49;11
Brandon
And he just took the opportunity to swing as hard as he could to discredit my faith completely.
00;57;49;16 - 00;57;50;05
Evan
Wow.
00;57;50;07 - 00;57;59;25
Brandon
So I, I kind of feel like I was just like I was just like, like a puppy dog. And passing by, somebody kicked me, like, I feel like I was the unintended.
00;57;59;26 - 00;58;00;07
Evan
00;58;00;10 - 00;58;33;24
Brandon
Yeah, yeah. And I could step away from it and not take it personal. But at the same time, the unfortunate truth is we're all messy people, and our emotions get in the way of things. And I do enjoy I do enjoy a discussion, a debate, I love it, but how often is it where somebody can come from a place of total security and peace and have a debate with somebody else that's in the same like maybe equivalent headspace with a different opinion, and then you leave also with peace.
00;58;33;26 - 00;58;34;10
Brandon
Right?
00;58;34;12 - 00;58;35;03
Evan
Sure. Yeah. Yeah.
00;58;35;04 - 00;58;48;28
Brandon
And realistically, somebody usually pissed off not always, not always, but like and realistically it's not about winning the debate. It's, you know, and there's some fun to that though. There's some fun. But you're like, yeah.
00;58;49;00 - 00;58;49;16
Evan
Yeah.
00;58;49;21 - 00;59;13;18
Brandon
You're your words are not going to hold a candle to to my truth. But at the same time, you know, it's so easy to, it's so easy to just disenchant others. You know and I don't know I'm, I'm not a pastor. I never sought out to be one. I think we are all so freaking flawed and we're all so broken in so many ways that if I can just if I can do my best to model it and walk it, I will feel content.
00;59;13;20 - 00;59;32;08
Brandon
Yeah, there's always people that come up and quietly behind the scenes. They reach out in times of need like, hey, I want something that you have or whatever, and there's an opportunity to minister to people and like say, well, it's okay. You're not actually holding this whole world up. You know, like it's going to be okay. And this is what gives me peace.
00;59;32;09 - 00;59;55;00
Brandon
And for me, the cool thing about starting that practice of doing the Bible, you know, every day in 2021, I've just kept doing it. So now I'm in, like, whatever, my fifth year of reading the Bible in a year. And just it's an everyday thing. I mean, if something happens in my day is disrupted and I don't have that time, my day and I haven't done it yet today, but usually my day is just a little off and it's not as grounded.
00;59;55;05 - 01;00;00;03
Brandon
And I like to do it first thing in the morning. And that just is kind of my anchor of the day.
01;00;00;04 - 01;00;03;16
Evan
Let's do it right now. You have a Bible I'm just kidding. Let's, let's break it open.
01;00;03;17 - 01;00;18;10
Brandon
Yeah. Well and it's funny too because you slowly start to learn things that I've read so many times and never picked up on. You start to understand the characters and you start to see yourself in those characters. Yeah, I don't know. I always pray for wisdom. I always want wisdom like Solomon, but I also don't want to be.
01;00;18;12 - 01;00;37;27
Brandon
I don't want to fall into the same pitfalls, you know. I want to be like David, you know, we all want to be like David at times. But you know everybody has their shortcomings. It's been fun because it makes me feel creative and it makes me feel I feel like this can be a God honoring thing just to make space, hear people out and maybe, maybe even have.
01;00;37;28 - 01;01;03;20
Brandon
Well, it's funny. I had an interview with a buddy not too long ago, who was coming from a completely different theological standpoint. And he's, you know, more like, yeah, you know, the, the universe, this and that, you know, and but he, he was so convicted in his own thoughts about the universe. And, you know, I'm convicted in mine, but like, I'm not I'm not going to fall for the temptation to discredit his labels.
01;01;03;22 - 01;01;21;09
Brandon
Yeah. Because I'll immediately mute the mic. He will immediately. I will lose all credibility and influence in his life if I do that. Yeah, because that's where prideful creatures. Right? Like, if you say the wrong thing the wrong way, people just shut you out and discredit you. Yeah, I do it all the time to people. I'm totally guilty.
01;01;21;09 - 01;01;37;02
Brandon
And it's funny because we were talking about the ways that men and women respond to criticism with my wife, and I was like, yeah, somebody can give me like direct, piercing criticism and I will discredit them so fast because I'm know, like, I don't like that. I'm like, nah. What has he ever done you know. Yeah. Yeah.
01;01;37;02 - 01;01;55;07
Brandon
Yeah. And and she's like that's not fair. Because if I got that criticism it would crush me. And I'm like we're built differently. Yeah. You know I'm like I think that men in general are often better at. Yeah. Just we'll consider the source, you know, like just like different ways to deflect it, you know.
01;01;55;10 - 01;01;56;25
Evan
Right. Right. Right.
01;01;56;28 - 01;01;57;03
Brandon
Yeah.
01;01;57;05 - 01;02;00;05
Evan
But they don't have the full story anyways, right. What do they know.
01;02;00;07 - 01;02;01;17
Brandon
And they did.
01;02;01;20 - 01;02;03;11
Evan
Yeah. Yeah.
01;02;03;14 - 01;02;21;02
Brandon
It's really cool though because I feel like this this stage this table is going to see a lot of it's just gonna it's gonna swirl a lot of people together. Yeah I'm really excited because a lot of people have said yes. And, I just felt feel like I got a lot of interesting people in my life. I didn't know that you never graduated high school.
01;02;21;06 - 01;02;48;21
Brandon
I consider you a successful business owner, a leader, and a really sharp guy. You're also a Christian, and you're not beating people over the heads or not like a clanging gong, you know, to them. And you have employees that don't share your beliefs. Oh, yeah. You know, like, how do you manage all of that when I guess because today it seems like really post-Covid, it seems like everybody's been so freaking edgy.
01;02;48;23 - 01;03;11;03
Brandon
You know, we've all been kind of crazy, and isolated and everything has everything in the media is so sensationalized, right, and and polarizing that it just feels like it's really easy to be discredited if you say anything that's disagreeable in a way, like a lot of us will choose to self-censor. Totally. Yeah. There's a whole culture of it on social media, right?
01;03;11;04 - 01;03;19;29
Brandon
How do you kind of as a as an employer, how do you try to model your faith through example and whatnot without necessarily preaching to your employees?
01;03;20;01 - 01;03;35;14
Evan
Yeah, I mean, I think that's that's exactly it. I just try to model it. I try to act in a way that glorifies God, that then in all that I do, I'm seeking to glorify him first and not man and trying to be obedient to him. And by doing that, you know, my hope is that that means something to people.
01;03;35;14 - 01;03;57;00
Evan
And they see, you know, it doesn't just because we don't think the same way, we don't have the same worldview, doesn't mean that we can't just treat each other like humans. We can't get along, can't work together. And yeah, it's it's great. I mean, there's nothing weird has happened because of it. You know, it's not like it's not doesn't I mean, it's definitely in, you know, somebody will tell me something's going on in their life.
01;03;57;00 - 01;04;04;10
Evan
And I'm saying I'm praying for you, you know, and and knowing that maybe they don't share my my worldview, but I am praying for them. And I want them to know that.
01;04;04;13 - 01;04;09;25
Brandon
Have you ever had a client push back on maybe something you said that was religious?
01;04;09;26 - 01;04;42;20
Evan
No, no. I mean, personally, I, I mean, I didn't get saved until seven years ago. So it's and since then I haven't I'm not interacting with clients all the time. You know, I'm not going to use all the time. So that really hasn't, hasn't come up. And I probably would be one to like, not say the thing that I was thinking if somebody said something, you know, like, I probably would want to just let bygones be bygones and just go about, you know, keeping business business, which maybe that's wrong.
01;04;42;23 - 01;04;51;01
Evan
You know, maybe that's not not what I should do, but I probably wouldn't be the one. Despite how much I love debate, wouldn't be the one to debate with a client or something like that.
01;04;51;03 - 01;05;20;14
Brandon
You know, it's funny, I had it reminds me of a couple that I met when I was selling new construction. This was probably back in 2016. And I remember it was like a police officer and an air nurse, like married couple. They came in and they were looking at houses and, I met them and then their agent came in after, and we were walking through houses and options and, they at the end of the little tour, you know, we discussed what was available and what their next moves were.
01;05;20;16 - 01;05;41;22
Brandon
And I said, well, if you are you guys believers? And they said, yeah. I said, well, why don't you just pray about it? God Osteria in the right direction. And that was it. It was nothing really profound that I said, in my opinion, nothing real preachy. And they left and their agent lingered and circled back and said, you know, you should really leave all the religious stuff out of the workplace.
01;05;41;23 - 01;05;49;21
Brandon
And I said, well, I sure didn't mean to offend you, but Lennar is my employer. God is my boss. Yeah, like that'll work for you.
01;05;49;23 - 01;05;51;06
Evan
Yeah.
01;05;51;08 - 01;06;00;27
Brandon
I said I had a great rapport with your clients and they were believers. So, you know, I was like, I'm not going to apologize. Really? Yeah. Like this is kind of my show, you know.
01;06;00;28 - 01;06;03;17
Evan
It's like, thanks for the input, but yeah. But no.
01;06;03;18 - 01;06;05;24
Brandon
Yeah. Bless her heart. Yeah, yeah.
01;06;05;26 - 01;06;12;00
Evan
Right, right. So that's interesting. So the the buyers didn't say they didn't care. It was the agent that overheard that that said something.
01;06;12;01 - 01;06;31;24
Brandon
Well, I was I was young and, a lot of personalities, a lot of real estate personalities are kind of bulldogs. Right. And, she didn't know that I was also super stubborn, you know, like I'm just not easily offended by that. Like that's okay. You can you can do your thing but I don't work for you.
01;06;31;26 - 01;06;34;06
Brandon
01;06;34;09 - 01;06;58;25
Brandon
I wasn't unkind. Yeah. You know but yeah. And I it's just interesting because, because now, now I pray for everybody and including times where I know people aren't believers, I'm like I just think God's going to work this all out for you. Like, and he already knows exactly where you're going. Yeah. You know, because it's hard. You know, I'm asking people to completely trust me.
01;06;58;27 - 01;07;18;15
Brandon
Knowing that I don't that I really don't have any clue what houses are available, that or what will become available. So much of it is just like, let's just prepare you. Things will fall into place. Yeah, and they always do. Yeah. You know. Yeah. That's the crazy part about all this. I mean, even even right now, it's a pretty slow market.
01;07;18;15 - 01;07;39;22
Brandon
And it's this listing. I just did the one you guys shot here last week. I told them, I said, statistically, your house is right here. This this is what it should sell for. I'd like to price it a little bit lower and we're going to do it. The the the Brandon strategy. And with any luck, maybe we'll get multiple offers.
01;07;39;24 - 01;07;44;13
Brandon
And we are now under contract 50 K over asking.
01;07;44;15 - 01;07;45;15
Evan
Praise God. Look at that.
01;07;45;16 - 01;07;52;20
Brandon
And that's awesome. And I've got a backup contract. Wow. In my inbox waiting to execute as well.
01;07;52;22 - 01;07;54;23
Evan
And you said a couple. You said.
01;07;55;00 - 01;07;56;13
Brandon
Yeah I had like seven.
01;07;56;16 - 01;07;57;06
Evan
Yeah.
01;07;57;08 - 01;08;06;14
Brandon
Offers. Yeah. And it's cool because they're like they're blown away. I said a really low expectation with them. Said, well, statistically this is what it should sell for, you know, and
01;08;06;16 - 01;08;07;21
Evan
And to promise over deliver.
01;08;07;26 - 01;08;19;26
Brandon
Well, I said at the same time I was like, you've seen me sell 16 houses in this neighborhood. You know, this is what I do every time. You know, I lived next door to you in that house. Sold for that price. But I listed at this price.
01;08;19;26 - 01;08;22;14
Evan
That is awesome that it's under contract. Like, especially in this market.
01;08;22;16 - 01;08;23;18
Brandon
In this.
01;08;23;20 - 01;08;28;07
Evan
City, everything is sitting 100 days, you know, price drops.
01;08;28;09 - 01;08;32;06
Brandon
I would die if I was sitting on something for 100 days.
01;08;32;08 - 01;08;32;20
Evan
Yeah.
01;08;32;21 - 01;08;37;10
Brandon
Well, I did last year when I had the luxury flip and it was quiet. But, you know.
01;08;37;12 - 01;08;41;26
Evan
Yeah, it depends the price. Luxury stuff will sit, but that's notorious, you know? Yeah. That's typical.
01;08;41;27 - 01;08;44;02
Brandon
I like the action. I like to get in and out, man.
01;08;44;03 - 01;08;57;01
Evan
Yeah, yeah. I had a client say something like that. Like it's like I, I don't. He's like, I could get $5 million listings. I don't want that. I, I, I would rather do ten, $500,000 listings than one $5 million listing, which makes sense.
01;08;57;03 - 01;09;13;29
Brandon
Well, I used to share an office with Ellen Hill, who is like the Cobb County number one superstar. And, when I first went into general and, you know, and I said, you know, she called me one day and I said, hey, I saw you got these, you know, nice seven figure listings. And she's like, yeah, it's good.
01;09;14;00 - 01;09;26;18
Brandon
But, you know, the sweet spot is really like, you know, 4 to 700. Yeah. Like there's still nice paychecks, but you get in and out and you're not courting the clients for a year or two. Yeah. You know, like that makes a lot of sense.
01;09;26;20 - 01;09;31;06
Evan
Yeah. Feel like the higher end ones, too, are the ones that will call you at 8 p.m. and expect an answer.
01;09;31;06 - 01;09;53;10
Brandon
And they expect you to do every. Yeah. Just very high, high expectations. And, it's amazing what, lowering your expectations. I heard that that quote, secret happiness is lowering your expectations. Yeah I heard that on NPR a while back and it has stuck with me. It's like you don't go to McDonald's expecting you know. Right. Revolutionary cuisine.
01;09;53;12 - 01;10;14;13
Brandon
Yeah. But yeah. Well, I'm so proud of you, dude. You're you're doing good stuff. You're it's it's cool to see an example of a Christian business owner right here in my backyard. It's cool. I get to work with you and my my space and, And thank you. You you were instrumental in getting this whole podcast started.
01;10;14;14 - 01;10;14;23
Evan
It's a lot.
01;10;14;23 - 01;10;15;08
Brandon
Of fun. Yeah.
01;10;15;08 - 01;10;16;07
Evan
I'm doing that stuff.
01;10;16;09 - 01;10;23;07
Brandon
I love doing it. I appreciate you. If people want to reach out for all types of media offerings, real estate stuff, where can they find you?
01;10;23;07 - 01;10;33;26
Evan
Man? Real estate media is visually sold.com on Instagram at visually sold for all of your listing media needs, photos, videos, drone 3D tours, floorplans, you name it.
01;10;33;28 - 01;10;39;06
Brandon
Yeah, well, you guys do a fantastic job, dude. I'm so proud of you. Evan Roberts. Thank you man.
01;10;39;12 - 01;10;40;19
Evan
Thank you.
01;10;40;22 - 01;10;44;05
Brandon
Thanks for checking out the Think in Cursive podcast.
01;10;44;07 - 01;10;45;29
Speaker 3
Please give us a like, subscribe.
01;10;45;29 - 01;10;55;11
Brandon
And your comments along the way. They're so important to us for all things podcast or real estate. You can find me at Be Good brandon.com. Thanks for checking us out. We'll see you soon.
