so I lost my last fight a split decision
and I was like almost relieved because I was just like
I was ranked No. 2 in the world after a fight
my hands will be banged up and I'm like
should have stayed in sales man
haha
it's crazy but you know
it's a it's a fun life man
it's always exciting my own head of like
I think overtraining is like
it's kind of like insecurity
well in
according to your chart you're a beast yeah
you're a beast and I was like
look at my shirt I was like
I got an eight pack I can run a 5:30 mile
like you wanna tell me that
she's like well
this is what the chart says in that shop
and I was like looking around at everybody
and I was just like I just don't belong here man
like these people are so happy
welcome to the think in cursive podcast
I'm Brandon Leonard
and I'm so excited to share with you
my circle of interesting people and conversation
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subscribe and share your comments along the way
it helps our little channel more than you know alright
here we go
Nathan Rivera thanks for coming on thinking cursive man
it's so good to see you it's been a while
absolutely absolutely
thank you for having me bro
this setup is sweet um
me and my buddy have been trying to
we've been playing with this idea of
starting a podcast and just having people on
and talking to them about all kinds of stuff
so when I saw this setup I was like
okay we gotta do it bro
this is awesome bro let's do it
is he another uh is he another martial artist
he uh
he is actually he was actually my uh
he was my welding instructor
um five or six years ago
um he's one of my best friends
he he's the guy who I was telling you about
that just started jiu jitsu um
like a year ago
he wrestled in high school and is like a unit
like powerlifter
like competitive powerlifter for many years
so
he's actually teaching me how to back squat right now
and it's like insane
because I've never really like lifted weights before
and like I had I don't know
like 200 pounds on my back and I was like bro
get this shit off me bro
I felt like it's gonna snap my spine in half
um but yeah
he's just he's a
he's a super good dude
he actually ended up marrying me and my wife
um just like a super strong like man of God
just a unit um
he's actually
he like runs us
young adults group that we're a part of at our church
also so
he's just like
a really good guy with a lot of knowledge
and he knows a lot of cool people
so we were like let's do it man
we're like figuring out my basement right now
one half is martial arts related and workout related
and the other half is undisclosed right now or
you know it's
it's up in the air so we're trying to figure it out
yeah well what uh
what church you go to uh
vintage 2 42 it's over in Acworth
um kind of
I guess it's a Dallas address
but it's it's in Acworth
you know mmm hmm
close to downtown Acworth around there cool
and how uh
yeah I can't believe
you're a professional bare knuckle boxer now
yeah yes
that's crazy to me dude
yeah sometimes I like after a fight
my hands will be banged up and I'm like
should have stayed in sales man
ha ha ha ha ha it's crazy
but you know it's a
it's a fun life man it's always exciting
well everything is sales
you are still in sales yeah
you know
it's just now there's a new performance element
and a little bit more uh
risk of getting punched in the face
yeah yeah
no doubt yeah
that is so wild to me I was gonna ask you this too
you were talking about lifting
and you never really trained much
like heavy weight stuff do you feel like it uh
would slow you down any or
or the opposite I wonder how that affects cause you
cause you're fast yeah yeah
I mean you're a speed explosive timing coordination
I'm just trying to imagine cause I don't
I've never trained striking or footwork
yeah it's like
it's a weird balance right
like the guys who have too much muscle
sometimes it can slow them down right
you know I always said
I was like if I stop knocking people out
then I'll just like pick up the weights
cause everyone like dude
they clown me at the gym they're like
oh you don't do weightlifting
you don't do weightlifting
you don't do weight training
and I would do like hit workouts Crossfit
like makeshift Crossfit workouts right
like really just for like the cardiovascular endurance
like like for weights also
but like I would do like this
I call it like my 50 workout
and I do it every other day
I would do 50 pull UPS 50 push UPS
50 bench
50 lunges and 50 squats and like not a lot of weight
right
and I didn't know what I was doing and I was just like
I get injured a lot when I lift weights
um and then my last fight
I was having a hard time putting this guy away
so I was like alright bro
the time has come
so I have this strength and conditioning coach
his name is Dan um
he is a unit bro
like college strength and conditioning coach
um professional fighters like all over
um and like every day his program was something new
he watched all my footage
like my film like
if this is how you wanna fight
and this is how you are fighting
let's build around that it's like so specific
and I'm like the first couple weeks I was clapped bro
like I was clapped my legs everything
I was like this sucks but um
I'm working through like a
a broken thumb right now so I was like
if there's a time now it is
so now now's the time so I'll
I'll let you know how
how I feel once I get back in the mix of like
hard sparring but I
I've been feeling awesome
like I've been doing creatine and like
I have all these new supplement stacks for the morning
and at night
and like really revamped my whole inventory
you know
I kind of took inventory of my career and I was like
alright I need to like up these
these different areas uh
strength conditioning being one of them
but I've been loving it so I'm super curious
like where do you get your information and guidance
with all your supplementation
uh a lot of it I
I go so there's a couple
a couple areas that I I reach out to
and I'm super blessed that I have like
one of the best teams in the world
like the people around me are so knowledgeable
um like I go to
a lot of time I go to my guys at DFA Chiropractor
they're up in Sandy Springs
they are like I say chiropractor
but they're like a performance based firm
like I you know clinic
I mean they have like CJ is an Olympic runner
he's um does the 400 hurdles unit right
my buddy Allen did boxing
he was in he's just a professional all around
um so they're super
super
they're super based on like supplementation
and then also like what really
like what you need
so like I really go to them for a lot of stuff
like right now I'm taking um
a lot of heart and soil stuff
just to see how I feel with like beef organs
um I'm taking like obviously the
like the basics like vitamin d
zinc and like
um I'm taking this thermogenic kind of thing right now
from heart and soil also called like fire starter
I think and it's
I don't know it's just making me hot all the time
when I'm working out and I'm just
I'm kind of tinkering with stuff
but they are really
they're kind of putting that together for me
and then I I go to my guy
Dan also
that kind of built out this day and night sleep stack
so this the sleep stack is crazy
I'm taking like L theanine and um
like a different type of magnesium and zinc at night
and like when to take certain things
so I kind of hit it from all angles
and then I go to um
I like I ask a lot of guys at Barbara Orthopedics um
cause they
they work with a lot of high level athletes also
so I kind of I kind of hit all of them up and I'm like
guys what are we doing
cause I need some help you know yeah
I don't I don't know a lot
I've listened to like a lot of podcasts
but that's like bro science pretty much
you know well
I've I've been a big fan of the Huberman podcast
okay and you ever listen to him
I've listened to a clip I don't think
I've ever listened to a whole podcast of his
but I've heard the clips I mean
it's very dense it's um
and it's so you know
so much data yeah
um but if you
and it's long he's long
long winded I mean he's a professor
but it's it's fascinating
cause he'll break down
everything you need to know about peptides
or like you know
don't worry about stacking all these supplements
if you're not getting good sleep
if you're not getting sunlight in the morning
you know try uh
to limit your exposure to toxic relationships
yeah you know
like all of these things that stacked
you know it sounds pretty common sensical
you know but at the same time they
things happen you creep in and it's like
wait a minute I don't need another supplement
if I just downed a pint of ice cream
you know like maybe I should focus on my diet
yeah maybe I should see the sun every once in a while
like yeah yeah
maybe I should stop playing video games for 10 hours
yeah dude
one thing that I've been so excited to get and I'm like
trying to like save up right now for
cause it's expensive is a chili pad
have you ever seen those huh
it is like I I get hot bro
and I sleep hot and it's messing up my sleep
um like I'm
I'm married and we have a king size bed
and I'm used to like
if it's hot over here
I'm going over to this side of the bed where it's cold
you know what I mean
and that's not a thing for me right now
so I'm like I'm getting so hot
I'm waking up all the time uh
so a chili pad is like
I guess it's a somewhat of like a
like a mattress
it almost looks like a mattress protector
but it's pumps like cold water through it
um and it's OK
like
you can set the temperature to like whatever you want
so I could say it's like 56 or 57 or 60
and it like keeps you cool
and it like lowers your overall body temperature
and lets you hit that like
you know like
peak recovery time when you're sleeping
and stuff like that
so that's one of those things that I've been like
I heard it from a podcast and I was like bro
I need that and then I talked to my buddy
that he runs in the Olympics
and he's like this is the
the biggest game changer for me
he's like you spend 1/3 of your
your life sleeping
like you need to get high quality sleep
that's always a compelling argument
isn't it yeah
I'm like sign me up bro
sign me up you know uh
Huberman's sponsored by the 8 sleep Bed
which is like you know
yeah Wi-Fi
I didn't like that it requires a subscription
but interesting
but it's a smart bed that cools and or heats
same kind of concept I don't have any of that
but I do have a box fan and okay
it blows air and it feels great haha
yeah you know
that that works pretty well
I've seen the bed jet as well
which just has a tube that runs
you know into your bed and blows fans under your sheets
that's not bad right
um those are just
yeah'cause I'm like man
I would love to have one of these fancy beds
but I'm like not quite ready to drop
I don't know five yeah
seven eight grand on a mattress but yeah
I don't know spend a third of your life on it right
yeah that's I mean
I was really thinking about it like I'm 29
I'm about to get into that like
unk status where I'm like
30s are here you know
like I need to be getting good sleep yeah
really good sleep
so I think I'm gonna make the investment
I you know
there's a lot of stuff that I never had to think about
and now I'm thinking about it like
it's like a
it's almost half of my training is like my warm up
my recovery my um
my little rehab I'm doing with the bands
and everyone's laughing at you cause you're doing like
grandma rehab you know what I mean
and it's like dude
this stuff keeps you intact and alive
like I remember when I was in my early 20s
I was just like wake up hungover
still a little bit drunk
be at practice on Saturday morning
have the best practice of your life
get Chipotle with the boys
repeat and it was like peak performance
like I didn't have to worry about anything yeah
literally
and now I'm like dude
if I have a couple beers I'm like
next morning I'm cooked yeah
I'm cooked so it's
it's it's interesting bro
the the changes I've been
I've been kind of discovering
you know
you know I
when I was I trained on like 13 years of Crossfit
I did Crossfit this morning too
but I'm just not as into it as I used to be
cause I'm supplementing jiu jitsu
and I try to skateboard once a week
nice um
nice just to do things that are fun
but Matt Frazier was like the dominant competitor
you know I don't know
five or six years nobody beat him
he just had a significant advantage
um even if he didn't win every event
um he won every games
yeah and one thing that stood out to me is he said
you know everybody's focusing on their performance
I focus on recovery and he said
you know sleep when it's cold
make sure you're getting enough sleep
wind down you know clear
you know an hour before bed and and after you wake up
you know free of blue light
you know he even said
um yeah
sleep and sleep cold also
you know experiment with uh
waking up with light instead of sound
which doesn't really work when you sharing a bed right
with somebody but uh
I thought that idea of focus on recovery
cause I'm 42 now and I've been training
uh in some sort of athletic thing since I was
I don't know 15
yeah and a lot of miles still doing jiu jitsu
still getting cranked and dropped
and all that good stuff and um
you know and that's what has LED me to
you know build the sauna in the basement
I got a cold plunge in my garage
nice and um
try to find those ways to stay young
obviously cutting drinking helped me yeah
a lot um
I'm just not into it as much as I used to be
and well I'm not into it at all now
but now I have a beer I mean
I get a headache before I get buzzed
that's where I'm at alright
well that was fun while it lasted
I guess yeah
like it's a interesting idea
I've heard a lot of people talking about like
your next workout is only as good as your last recovery
yeah and when I really started thinking about that like
yeah bro like the minutes stacked to hours
and the hours stacked to days
and next thing you know
you're looking across the ring from somebody
that you've put in
60 extra days than them in that one
you know two month camp
it's a lot of days you know
or whatever you know
you put in a lot of extra hours and it's just uh
it's a it's a crazy thing to think about like you
we always think about more more more more
more and I
I feel like recently I've been shifting to like
more intentional work like not necessarily
you know the quantity
more of the quality and then putting more into recovery
it's been it's been nice
I've been having to like battle my
my own head of like you know
I think over training is like
it's kind of like insecurity
you know
if you're not
if you're not confident enough to train how much and
and and not go over that
you know my head in my head
like when Tuesday rolls around bro
I'm like I got so much more gas in the tank
Tuesday's my my light day right
so Monday's hard Tuesday's a little bit lighter
Wednesday's hard and it kind of stacks that way um
and Tuesday comes around and I just wanna get it bro
like I just wanna sink my teeth in and go
and I'll leave practice like having so much more
and I'm having to battle that in like wind it back like
you know take it back and go okay
this is like I did my work
like tomorrow's a hard day
let's chill and that's not the easiest thing
it's at least for me personally
so yeah imagine man
well it also
it's gotta come with just years of being an athlete
I mean you have to know your body and know your
your you know
payload understand when to back off right
and like you can't just learn that overnight yeah
you gotta hit the max and then
you know you gotta vacillate between extremes
before you can really find that middle ground like nah
this is where I need to be yeah
and you know
I'm still trying to figure that out in jiu jitsu
I'm like ah
maybe I should you know
as I don't worry about um
gassing out as much as I do like my
this pinky went this way the other day and
you know my neck and back and wrists knees yeah
yeah
literally dude
I um
jujitsu I've gotten
more injured from jujitsu than any other sport
in my entire life like
and I've also got more black eyes from jujitsu
really than yeah
and then I'm like a professional striker now and like
don't do any jiu jitsu
I go back to jiu jitsu and I catch an elbow or a knee
or you know what I mean
or you take somebody down and they're
they're kind of sprawl and their hip hits you in the
in the face and you're like
dang dude this is like I'm getting beat up over here
like hahaha
it's insane bro
it Jiu jitsu is a
it's a fun sport and it's cool because like
you get out what you put into it yeah
you know yeah
if you really want to like immerse yourself
in that you'll get so much out of it
it's pretty cool
see I'm not in the phase of life where I'm like
really trying to test myself against the best guys now
I'm like look
I'm a hobbyist I'm a dad
I'm middle aged uh
you know I just want to have fun
this is this is just fitness for me
you know like this is just total entertainment
this is my recreation yeah
yeah dude
I
I tell people all the time that they want to start like
kickboxing or jiu jitsu um
and I'm like dude
if you like had a I don't know if you
if you had a heart rate monitor on
and you saw how many calories you burn
from a jiu jitsu class
and you try to do that on the treadmill
you'll be bored out of your mind
like go scrap for three
five minute rounds after practice
you will be you will burn so many calories
you'll be sore and muscle like you'll be like wow
I didn't even know I had a muscle there
like what is that
what is that you know
like
it's so fun and it's such a good way to stay in shape
and also like if you have that competitive edge to like
have an outlet for that yeah
it's awesome it's awesome
and you cause you're
I don't know my
I kind of think about it like
you're facing real life adversity
like someone's trying to choke you out
it's a real life adversity
like
I need to get out of this choke or I'm gonna pass out
you know yeah
like a lot of the stuff that's kind of it
it lets us get uh you know kind of wound up
it's kind of trivial when you like
go get it out over there
and you face some real life adversity
someone trying to choke you out
or slam you on your head you're like
alright man somebody cut me off
I'm kind of I'm cool yeah
I thought about this when I had uh
Professor Alex and Rick is on just like that feeling
that drive home after a day of training and just
you know
I especially when you're the hammer but you know
even when you're the nail like
you know when you're
you're going home and you're like in silence exhausted
no music exhausted no music on
there is a level of peace that
people just don't understand yeah
you know yeah
sometimes all your aggression out and you're like spent
yeah physically spent just like bro
let's do it again yeah
you know like I gotta tap that one guy that got me yeah
or that one guy finished a double egg on me
like if I didn't you know
if I bump the wall or bumped into my person
you know like yeah
you kind of like I'm gonna get that back
it's so fun bro it's a blast dude
I miss jiu jitsu a lot I always talk about um
whenever I'm done fighting
like I'm gonna become like
a lab rat and shoot up all kinds of testosterone and
like all kinds of stuff and just go to Naga
blue belt division and just like
have a blast you know
like it's gonna be great
it's gonna be awesome oh my gosh
do you uh do you mess with any of the peptide stuff
I don't man I don't I was going to for this thumb
I I broke the thumb in honestly
it looks like I broke it in three places
like it's broken all the way through
but it happened in the first round
and I did six rounds of my last fight
so I just kept throwing it
and so it's like shattered
almost like there's pieces of it chipped off
and the I was talking to this lady and she was like
do you wanna like she was wanting to to work out a
a deal with me and I was like honestly
I did some research on it and like the risk for me
I don't know if it was it would be worth the reward
like I get maybe a month sooner and like
I don't know if I have any
I'm kind of a scaredy cat too
so like I don't know if I have any tumors in my body
that are just sitting there
but if there's
a possibility that it might increase them
or make them grow faster or bigger
I'll just heal this thing up
you know but like I
I think that's just partially ignorant statement
because I don't really know all about it
you know I know they say like
are there any cancers in your immediate family
and if the answer is no it's usually safe
but for me I was thinking to myself
I mean that's like
it's a lot of unknowns it's like
oh you're probably fine
so yeah I kind of just
I stayed away from it do you do any peptide stuff
yeah yeah
I'm a
well it's funny
going back to what you said
I wouldn't consider you scared
yeah yeah
that's just maybe cautious is a better word
sure right
yeah like no
I don't
I don't think professional bare knuckle boxer is scared
um yeah
but see I also
yeah I'm
I'm it's funny
cause like
I'm not too cautious
these days about trying new protocols
um with my injuries or
or what not because
well I'll tell you what changes it
I was cautious and skeptical of all this stuff
until I developed chronic pain
and it didn't go away and I started to wrestle
with the idea that this might be the new normal
yeah and that's a terrible scary
that is scary that is scary
because when you're carrying this pain and
you know and I'm the last 4
5 years I've been reading a lot of medical books um
actually
good energy by Doctor Casey Means was a great one um
David Sinclair wrote he's interesting
there's a lot of interesting brain energy
good energy
aging as a disease and how to prevent it
there's all of this fascinating research and
you know the amount of time to where
try you know
human trial tests that have passed all these uh
protocols like between uh
when the American Medical Association approves
a new study that has been human tested and proven
between that point
and when you'll actually get that treatment
in your local provider in a big modern area
uh an urban area like Atlanta yeah
that amount of time is about 18 years
that's insane in rural areas like where I'm from
it's 25 years wow
so they're behind the ball a quarter of a century
18 years yeah
that's insane
that's the average you're done for at that point
that's the average yeah
you're done you know
like so we're not working with modern science and
and you know
you start listening to Huberman
and start thinking about things like
where can I take personal agency
like take responsibility for what's working
don't just blindly accept what your doctor says dude
I went into a doctor um
I was in better shape then uh
in training you know
way more Crossfit then um
but still about the same weight
you know about 190 pounds
5 foot 10 and uh my doctor's was a heavy set lady and
you know I'm just getting an annual yeah
and just nothing fancy and she's like
well according to your chart
you're a you're a beast
yeah you're a beast
and I was like look at my shirt
I was like I got an eight pack
I can run a 5:30 mile like
you wanna tell me that she's like well
this is what the chart says
I was like what
what's your personal analysis doctor
yeah I was like
this could be our last visit
it's insane I was like
you know just to think about things for a minute
and you know
it's um
she's like well
I just gotta I gotta follow the protocol
I gotta read what I have to say
what I you know
it's like alright
you guys are just mouthpieces for this institution
so yeah
I'm a lot less trusting of like traditional medicine
um western medicine plus
I mean I can be honest
like my mom is is
you know
a great example of why not to listen to the doctors
when'cause the doctors will always come up with a new
experimental treatment and if you just listen to them
and don't take any personal
responsibility for your life yeah
like we talked about uh
adding supplements
if you're still like down in pints of ice cream right
like right
maybe you should have an honest look at your diet
before you start you know
supplementing with all these things um
your sleep your exercise exposure to
you know you know
damaging relationships all these things
you should take account of
before you start really going with peptide therapy
or whatever but yeah
I do mess with peptides no
I dude
it's so funny you say that because I was listening to a
a video the other day
and it was talking about the pharmaceutical company
how they are you know
98% of them are petroleum based
and the Rockefellers own that
and then there is like a whole another
story of this video where it talks about
how they went through each medical institution
and either
you know bought them out
like gave them grants to teach this way of medicine
or got them shut down somehow
and how you know
you fast forward 100 years later
the pharmaceutical industry is 98% petroleum based
which they owned all the petroleum
and they went to each medical place and said
this is the new standard for medicine
here's a bunch of money
to teach this standard way of medicine
and then you know
you look at where we're at and you're like
oh wow
we are not the healthiest of individuals and if we just
you know
like thinking for yourself I think is I don't know
it's like a forgotten art right now
you know like we're such big consumers of like
we're just consumers you know what I mean
like fast fix man everything man
and that's something that I've been feeling like
super convicted about recently
is like
the things that I'm eating
like we were pretty clean when it comes to like
like no seed oils
like turn the Wi-Fi off at night that like
you know the whole nine when it comes to like my wife
thank God she's like gonna help us live to 100
you know but like
we eat pretty clean and and all of our stuff is pretty
like pretty holistic also
and and it's just
it's interesting that it's almost impossible to do that
like if you didn't have a decent income
it's very hard it's very hard to do that
like you go out to eat like
I know
I can name one restaurant that has like no seed oils
where the food is organic and it's um
like the eggs are far
are pasture raised and the meat is grass fed
like I know one restaurant and I'm like
I've been I've you know what I mean
I've been around like I'm a foodie
I love going to eat food and stuff like that
so it's crazy how
where where we are as a
as a society is so unhealthy
that whenever you start like
taking care of yourself and thinking for yourself
you're looked at as like oh
you're on a diet or you're this it's like no
I'm just like living clean
like I'm just like Wanna be healthy you know yeah
I hate my knees aching every day yeah
you know it's
it's it's a really weird time man
but I think there's a lot of um
there's a lot of money to be made
when people are sick and unhappy yeah
so it's like kind of makes sense when you
when you strip it back you know yeah
it is fascinating um
just how I I
I I've got so many examples that come to mind
of people that completely
just accept whatever the doctor says
the doctor will never give them nutrition counseling
I mean there's
it's nothing about what you're eating yeah
but food is medicine right
but even then if they were to give you that
it would be
how many people skewed would actually listen to it yeah
and if it was from a medical institution
it would probably be so skewed yeah
of what's like real you know
like just like yeah
like I mean
I like every meal almost is like red meat yeah
heavy heavy in vitamins and this and that
and like people are like
you're gonna get heart disease and I'm just like
I don't I don't think so
I feel really good
I don't know yeah
it's just it's crazy man
no indications that your heart is failing you as no
you're an extremely well conditioned
professional athlete
it's insane man
it's insane man
and it's like people will live their whole life
with that kind of thing yeah
you know stuck in that way of like
I mean even like little stuff like
I don't know like
like microplastics for instance
like the like the older generation is like
it's fine it's fine
it's like dude
there's so many studies about
what microplastics can do to you
you know and it's like hard to eliminate them totally
but it's like a
an effort to make a dent into that is like
probably worth it
but I feel like when you're 50 years old
and you've been doing what you've been doing
your whole life
there's probably not a lot of change
so I recently came across a cool little article um
and I think it was doctor uh
Ronda Patrick Ronda Carter
no she's cool
she's super cool
she was talking about microplastics and
you know obviously we all consume them
they're in our clothes they're in our
you know everywhere
but also uh
she said the good news is
it's very easy for most people to flush them out
particularly with broccoli sprouts
yeah and she's like
or you could take this supplement
and it's basically from broccoli sprouts
and it will flush 98% of all the microplastics out
like that day she's big on the
on the broccoli sprouts yeah
I've heard her talk a lot about the broccoli sprouts
um she seems pretty
like sometimes I'll get through that podcast
like one of her podcasts and I'm like
I don't know if I'm smart
enough to like listen to this right now
cause a half of it's like going over my head
I'll get like 10% of the podcast
but that's really that's crazy
I didn't know that you could
you could flush them out that easy
you know yeah
yeah with the right
you know with the right diet
yeah
yeah I'm constantly trying to experiment
figure out where can I shed
you know things that are
you know slowing me down or not supporting my goals
and my goal is to be one you know
one click more disciplined every year
nice you know
and I don't know what that means
when I turned forty
I felt a charge to stop trying to like
white knuckle everything and see how
see how smooth things go when I let go
hmm so it was more like growth can look like Grace
yeah
and also just quit thinking you're driving everything
hmm let's see
so I started experimenting with
you know
not trying to drive my real estate career as much like
let's just be hyper present
and we know that kind of laid the framework for
wanting to go into the podcast space
is just having intentional conversation with people
where I'm not distracted by the phone
you know and now I find myself
all my activities that I build around my life
involve being pride away from my phone
yeah with martial arts
you know
being in the sauna or hiking or talking on this
this show whatever um
just separating and trying to be hyper present
obviously when you're boxing or sparring or training
like you're not thinking about your phone at all
no you're hyper present
I think that's why people get hooked
you know because you enter that flow
you know same with jiu jitsu
same with Crossfit yeah
you know it's just nothing else is important anymore
and especially with combat sports
like there's really nothing
more important than the guy that's in front of you
trying to kill you
like nothing else is like has my attention
I think
that's probably why I was drawn to combat sports
is because
it was just the most exciting thing that I could do
legally that was fun and kept me engaged
and I didn't I
you know everything kind of did get shut out for that
like hour long of sparring on Monday nights
or Saturday mornings I was very engaged in something
you know
oh tell me about that
when did you start training martial arts
um well
so I I started doing like taekwondo
like every other kid in America
you know goes to like a taekwondo gym
cause I needed discipline self
you know like
like uh
I had so much energy
and I need to get it out or whatever
so I did that for a long time
how old were you then I was 4
you know like really young
but I don't even remember like I remember my mom
she told me that when she would go to
this was in Southern California
when we would go to the grocery store
there was like a a gym
like a martial arts gym next door
and I was like obsessed
like my dad would take me over there and I'd be like
watching through the glass and like
I loved it and then I would watch like
Bruce Lee movies growing up
and then I would like
watch Manny Pacquiao box with my dad
and like combat sports was so fun to me
and so I did that for a while
moved to Georgia
did taekwondo for a little bit and then I watched um
like some UFC like WEC on YouTube
I watched like the movie Never Back Down and I was like
bro like jiu jitsu seems so cool
so I went did some jiu jitsu
um and that was interesting right
cause I it was like felt like a fish out of water
like I literally
and it was this high school at this point
this was more like yeah
I was like maybe 12 or 13 years old
so a little bit before high school and um
I was in and out like I broke my arm
like I um
I was doing a hip throw on this girl
and my hand planted and she fell on my arm and like
snapped it back and chipped this part of my bone off
and I was like whoa
that was insane don't ever wanna do that again
I wrestled for a year in high school
um and I just
I just did not excel in
in wrestling cause I was just for so many years
I was just like
I would just like pull guard or something
if someone would take me down
I wouldn't fight it you know
and I just didn't have that like
dog in me to like be aggressive
like you have to be pretty aggressive in wrestling
um and then I was in and out of of training
like I was really like doing the bare minimum
I was working there as like a kids instructor
like a kids coach
so I had to like do enough to be there
and I had to be there a lot
but if I wasn't doing that
I probably would never have gone back to the gym
like I just was not interested in like training
I wasn't I was in the gym but I wasn't like
oh I wanna get better at this
and then like 2,018 I was like okay
I really wanna like pursue this cause this is fun
and I kind of stopped like
running around out in the streets
and getting in trouble and all this stuff
so I was like I
I could tell I was craving excitement and structure and
um so I started pursuing like my
my first goal was like to get a fight
like
I wanted to train enough to where my coach was like
okay you're ready for your first fight
so that took till I was like I think I was 20
22 or 24 no 22 when I had my first fight um
and that was in 2020 January of 2020
and I had my first MMA fight
and then ever since then it was just like over with
I was like okay
this is fun
and if I do it right and I play my cards right
I can make a career out of this like sign me up
you know yeah
it was like a long shot goal
but it was one of those like
where you always had something to look forward to
you always had something to drive towards
and I think I really craved that even outside of the
the sport itself
that like one big goal that you wanted to chase
even though it's like nearly impossible
it's very difficult you know
so that
that was kind of my upbringing in in martial arts
yeah so at what point were you like
were you okay to say yeah
I'm not gonna prioritize like a career or you know
getting some promotion or something
I'm gonna prioritize
developing my skills and becoming a professional ninja
it was probably like I think it was probably right
when I had that first fight yeah
like when I had that oh dude
I was like yeah
there's there's nothing else I wanna do with my life
at this moment than this
I had an office job at the time
and I remember going back to the office
I was in like commercial AR
like calling insurance companies
like just mindless work like terrible
like I would never I did that for like six months
I jumped all around because I
it was just whatever worked for my fighting
so like I did that for a while
then Covid happened everyone went home
I went to a buddy's house
I was like a new hire there
and I went to his house
and he kind of showed me the ropes from this
and then I started working from home
then I switched from that to another job
because it worked better for my schedule
for training and then I realized I just hated that
so I went to welding school because I was like
I need I need some type of education to fall back on
like I dropped out of high school
and then I got kicked out of another uh
alternative school and then I ended up getting my GED
and I was like
I've been putting all my eggs in this basket
I need to like take some time to like learn something
like I need something
and welding was interesting enough to me
but also like it was like
a 6 month course to go through welding school
and I was like called my parents like hey
can I move back in for like 6 months
cause I have to go to school
and I won't be able to work
and they're like yeah
come on so I came back home went to welding school um
and even that like I knew I didn't want to be a welder
you know like you're sitting in a room all day putting
gluing two pieces of metal together
like that's not fun
it was more of like a safety net backup plan
um
and I'm happy I did that
because I worked as a welder for six months
and I just remember being
in that shop and I was like looking around at everybody
and I was just like I just don't belong here man
like these people are so happy
with just clocking in every morning
punching in gluing a bunch of metal together
punching out like they love this
this is not me so I
this is the only job I ever drug up on
I just was like I'm out keys in there
you're never gonna see me again
um
I actually end up did seeing them again in my next job
which was super awkward but um
I I I left there
I started bartending and I started selling roofs
door knocking just cause I was like
this works with my schedule
like I can bartend all night
wake up go to morning practice
by the time morning practice is over
I can go door knock for a couple hours
go back to the bar after practice and like
it just worked for a long time
and then um
from there I
I got into like outside sales and in welding sales
so I had that base of of welding
well I'm a couple odd jobs in between
like I worked in warehouses and this and that but um
like I I always had my bills paid
but it was like just paid like that's it
like bills were paid
my private lessons with my coach were covered like
you know I had money for that and that was it um
and then I I got into outside sales um
from like having a background of welding
and then do also like door knocking
roof sales and I
I feel like I could do that job for a long time
like that I
that was probably the longest time I've
stuck doing something it was like two and a half years
um and it was fun
it was like aggressive enough for me to like
go into these businesses and
and try to swap business and hunt new business
and you know I
I move from like more of like a like retaining business
I moved to like more hunter and that
that was like definitely a lot of fun for me um
but definitely not as fun as punch people in the face
so haha um
I that was maybe a year ago
where I walked away from that job and it was like
it's a good job you know
it was fine I could do it
it was like I said
it was competitive enough for me to stay there
but like I knew there was more out there for me
so I kind of walked away from that and just pursued
like fighting full time um
and that's where I've been at for the past year or so
yeah you ever think some of those jobs
if you can make it you can make it
make a living doing
some of the jobs that you've probably already done
you could probably make a living doing anything yeah
you know this is America
I mean there's a lot of opportunity
for people that are willing to show up
and think like an owner yeah
you know yeah
it was crazy I remember like
just growing up in sports and practice and like
growing up getting
even just showing up on time
you're like so ahead of the curve right now
and it was insane like
I just remember
I would always show up to work 15 minutes early
like that was the time like I got here 15 minutes
like everywhere you go is just 15 minutes early
and it's like so you're never late
and just that basic principle was like
I was better than half the people in
like the workforce and I was like wow
this is like low standards man
I can really shine if I just do the bare minimum
it was wild you know
well you don't realize that you're surrounding yourself
I mean and
and your whole life
you've been surrounding yourself with
extremely disciplined people yeah
you know you can't just
you know be a
a a complete casual uh
legitimate martial artist right
you know right
I mean you
you really think about it like that's a very unique
like panel of peers yeah
you know if you're close
all your closest people are talking about
Olympic runners and yeah
boxers and jiu jitsu guys
I mean these are
and these are all people that like
they identify as their passions right
their chosen passions right
and they're they're at the professional level doing
I think it takes a special level of stubbornness and
and conviction to make your passion a profession yeah
you know and really
I think that's one thing one thing that I've noticed
a theme that's kind of come up in doing this
I've had you know
three music producers on and um
be a martial artist grapplers
there's just a stubbornness that comes to saying no
this is how my life is gonna look
I'm gonna do these things
I'm just gonna find a way to do it
it's a really good point like
I'm gonna find a way you know
because it's like the money's out there for that
whatever you wanna do the money's out there
you just gotta find it you know
you don't gotta make it
you just gotta find it because it's there
you know what I mean there is there is a way to do it
um
the way I thought it was
to do it was not the way for me
like I thought being getting
like chasing a world title and getting a world title
like I thought that would bring all the money for me
and it was just it's not the
you know it's
it's it's sales
like you
like we were talking about like being a fighter
you are the you're the product
but you're also the service
cause you're the product which is you have as a fighter
you have to be marketable right
but then also you have to be the service
like whenever people come to watch you fight
they have to have a good time right
so and
and that's what the promotion sees
when they sign you to their promotion
like okay
he is a him as a product is marketable
and him as a service is marketable
because of what he's brings when he fights
so I started realizing
the two things I need to focus on are my marketability
and my exciting fighting style
like that's where the money is made as an athlete
and that's it like
you could be 5 and 5 and have knocked five people out
and been knocked out five times
and you will probably have an incredible job
at any high level promotion
if you are bringing people in
that's it like so
and I realized that and I was like okay
that's where I needed to put my focus
and once I really shifted my focus there
I was like this is so much easier than I thought it was
yeah this is so much easier
you know it's crazy
well I imagine uh
it's hard to deny how much notoriety uh
Josh Holkett yeah
has drummed up in no time at all in the UFC
yeah
and then that's the other thing is like you have to
like people can smell phony yeah
you know like you have to
if you care about that which I do
it's like what you're putting out there to the world
is what you're putting out there for your kids to see
one day what you're putting out there forever
like
you know there's a different responsibility
if you're a Christian for what you do
you know you're a representation of Christ
so it's like there's a lot of things that
like
my flesh wants to do to promote fights that I have to
like
knock back or get creative on how I can promote fights
and it's it's really
it's one of the bigger challenges
that I've faced in my career
um not the fighting itself
it's how to stay true to who I am
when the lights are on
and when you wanna go do crazy stuff
and you wanna call people out and do this and that
and it's like
doesn't matter that you're like promoting the fight
what you're doing is what you're doing
you know what I mean it doesn't matter
you know so it's
it's interesting and that it's
it's a cutthroat game man
the entertainment it's you know
the entertainment business is like you're here
you're the guy for one day now you're not the next day
you know
so like finding who you are you know what I mean
and and and sticking true to who you are
and no matter what circumstances
it's been one of my biggest challenges
I remember talking to the guy
one of the guys from the company I fight for
that was like the marketing guy and
you know he worked with the WWE for a long time
and he worked with other big organizations in fighting
like PFL and he was like
you know
we're talking about the character and this and this
and I said hey man
like I'm just me I'm just gonna be me
I come from a blue collar background um
I think a lot of people resonate with that
because everyone go
gets up and goes to work the next day
you know and I've lived that life for so long like
and he was he was super cool like um
you know he's like yeah
let's just be you people can smell phony
so let's just build you more
and I was like okay cool
you know but like
it's crazy man you
you talk to some of these guys
after seeing them on the mic
you're like dude
that's not you like
I bet you Josh Hogan is not like that in
in person sure
in real life you know what I mean
but he jumped from 18 hours professional
fighting the No. 4 ranked guy
and then fighting a former title challenger
on the White House lawn in like
a year and he might be getting Alex Pereira soon
that's a scary fight that's crazy
that's scary that's wild
that's crazy man
yeah it
it's funny cause I don't know
I don't have any experience in bare knuckle fighting
I've never I've never even really trained much striking
but I know that um
everything changes when you get hit in the face
yeah and yeah
it does yeah
I can't I can't imagine trying to think about your
your brand your training
your coaching strategy your opponent
all that stuff how do you
how do you feel playful when you're doing all of this
yeah I
I it's like I
I tell a lot of the guys that I
I train with to like
that's early in their amateur career
um I just say dude
you just gotta play tag bro
you have to play tag with this guy's face
because if you try to think about hitting them in the
face you're putting more onto it
you're like like
I remember like the mantras that you tell yourself
like I was like oh
my wife's in the other room
this guy's trying to get to her
and I'm not gonna let her and all this other stuff
and it's like it doesn't matter bro
because whatever you do in practice
is what you're gonna do in the fight
so if you have that intention
like if you have that mindset in practice
where you're trying to hurt your teammates
which nobody wants to train with you
if that's the case right
right and you're angry and you hate them
then maybe bring that in the fight
but if you don't do that in practice
and you love the guys that you train with
and you just were trying to beat them in sparring
then you need to bring that into it
so a lot of the time I'm like
overly nice to my opponents
because I'm trying to create
I mean a
because it's it's the right thing to do
and I don't hate these people
they're making a living the same way I am
um taking the same risks but like
I make an effort to go like
talk to them and be kind to them
and talk to their opponents
or talk to my opponents coaches
because it brings me back to like reality of like
I don't hate this person
like I don't dislike this person
I might not like like how they do things
but like I don't hate you as a person
um I just need to hit you in the face
more than you hit me in the face
and like I literally say just playing tag
just playing tag like my coaches will say that'cause it
it kind of brings me back to
this is just a Monday night at sparring
you don't want to hurt or kill
or any of this stuff to your teammates
so if you start mixing in these unnatural feelings
and emotions that you don't usually perform with
it's not going to go well right
so so I keep it playful
I've just done it the other way where I was like
way too overly aggressive and it was just not
not good not good outcomes for me dude
so I wrestled one year in high school
my first wrestling match I
I had been on the wrestling team three days
I Learned one move I Learned how to sprawl
and I Learned the headlock takedown
nice nice
all I had that's brutal for
that's brutal dude
well I got a
I got a brother that's 16 months younger than me
so it helped that we you know
we grew up kind of nice beating up on each other
but uh
and my my opponent
my opponent comes out and this kid's like
6 foot 2 and 145 pounds
I was wrestling one 60 and I cut like 12 pounds
Jeez bro so big mash like big mix up size wise
I was a lot bigger than him even though he was taller
but he was just a lanky string bean
and I was ready to run through a brick wall
I was so hyped with adrenaline
cause I had no idea what I was doing
I was just like I'm gonna beat this guy with aggression
cause that's my only freaking move
and I go out there I'm like
ah
I'm gonna tear this guy apart and I go and I locked up
I locked up headlock
take down slammed him squeeze with all of my mind
I think I busted his nose
squeezing and pinned him in 16 seconds
and I was like I like wrestling yeah
wrestling's fun yeah
wrestling's so much fun my next match was not like that
oh shit bro I went against a senior
yeah and he uh
he he clowned me and uh
pinned me in like two rounds and uh yeah
but but what a debut yeah
I mean it was so awesome and those things bro
you never forget those bro
like you that that like at that age too yeah
that like helps form who you are how you see yourself
yeah you know what I mean
like oh
I was I was in 11th grade man
I was yeah fifteen
yeah 15 years old
knowing that I could take down a bigger guy
although he was skinny yeah
super skinny he's taller
he's taller for the story purposes
he was a lot bigger that's right
yeah yeah
he had to he had to wrestle up and wait
cause there was nobody in his weight class yeah
so yeah dude
but it's just so comical yeah
you know yeah
you have to keep it like
you have to keep it playful man
I think because uh
it's just
there's not enough time in the day to be angry
you know what I mean
like at like this guy's just trying to make a living
yeah the same way you're trying to make a living
that's it bro
like it's I always say like
I'm not fighting this person
I'm just fighting their style
like my style is fighting their style and that's it
how can my style beat this guy's style
like I'm not really fighting this guy's as a person
you know so it's
I think also just being strong in my faith
and having that moral compass
has actually really helped improve my performances
because I don't get into the
to the the
you know all the back and forth stuff
I just kind of take myself out of it
I'm just like yeah bro whatever
do what you gotta do you know
like we're gonna fight in six months or six weeks
whatever like we'll get to it
you know but the
the company is always pushing me to
you know smack the guy
in the face or do this not yeah
that specifically but yeah
you know do all this stuff
but um
it's it's a fun game though man
it's a it's a fun game for sure
do you think that your faith
has made you more confident
in becoming a I mean
a professional fighter
I think so I
you know I think being
you know for
for many years
I had my identity wrapped up in being a fighter
so I think I think my faith just keeps it like this
there's not you know
people say that fighting is like
the highest of highs and the lowest of lows
um and I think if you're pretty dialed with your faith
I don't think that's super true
like
you can get super upset and you can get super happy
but you know if
if none of this matters man
like that's something
I was talking to my buddy in the car on the way here
actually about that
like how
like my identity is not tied to this
sport in an unhealthy way anymore
so like the the ability to not care as much has
has 100% helped the trajectory of my career
and helped me in my performances
because I'm not training out of fear
you know I'm not training out of like
I have to win this fight because if I don't
who am I as a person it's
it's really yeah
I to answer your question
I definitely think it's helped my performances for sure
yeah
and imagine your identity too
I mean that's something that I
you were talking about how you were in this job
looking around all these people like dude
I'm not like these people
yeah I had that same epiphany
when I was in an accounting department
working for the home builder I
I was a touring musician for four years
and then I I got this accounting gig
a headhunter recruited me and I would just
the band was falling apart
I needed a gig
and it was a lot more money than being a musician
yeah so uh
I said alright
whatever if they fire me in six months
that's good money you know
yeah so straight up
I was like but I just
we just released a record with the old band and um
I'm all fired up about it
and I'm like working in this accounting department
like saying yeah
by the way you know
check out this record we just did like
you know and I realized like
none of these people have any kind of
big thing that they're excited about
yeah and they're all just afraid that
their life might change if they get let go of their job
and like there was this fear
dialogue that just didn't resonate with me yeah
you know and I don't know
I've been
I've been dumped and fired and laid off so many times
that I'm like
I just don't fear that anymore yeah
you know like
yeah I've worked since I was
I mean 6 years old
I had a I had an income coming in yeah
I was like I can do anything
I'm like ah
now I'm a I just
I'm not afraid of that um
you know the rug being pulled out from under me
but I just realized like I am not like these people
yeah you know
and um
it's freeing that's a freeing feeling yeah
like I'm not tethered to this job
yeah or this like
version of me that works in this job
like I don't care
you know like and
and it's hard for it's hard for me to like
you know when I think of somebody and I
and like I see their faces in my head
you know these people I'm talking about uh
and in my mind
they're the same people that they were back then
but I just got a little glimpse of who they were
in that moment right
but we're all on this journey
and we're constantly changing
you know so I feel like it's
it's easy for me to judge
and assume people haven't grown yeah um
or want people to grow faster than they
they want to grow right
you know and me feel some kind of rub
you know like wanting to
you know I'm sure you've had a buddy that you're like
constantly trying to invite him to stuff or like
you know step up in some
area of their life
and that's just not the season of life that they're in
yeah like they're not ready
and you know I think there's
I so I was talking to one of my best friends about this
I was like bro I don't have
so I've been out of the gym for 7 weeks now
and that's like I'll still go to the gym
but I can't do the classes
cause I can't hold for partner drills
I can't hit pads
I just got cleared to hit the bag eight days ago
so I'm like hitting the bag light
but I can't spar like I and I kind of you know
I live about an hour from the gym
so I kind of took myself
out of that environment a little bit
so I could just do more trail runs
do more like I'm doing more strength conditioning
or I'm like working out with friends
that I never get to work out with
because I'm always in the same four walls of the gym
for four hours a night like I'm like yeah
let me go do your workout with you
like let's go do meathead workouts and bench a bunch
and do whatever you know
like and so I've been kind of doing that more
and it's been so fun and I was talk you know
my my agent's calling me like hey man
you ready to get back to it
like how you feeling you know
and I was like yeah
just whenever my hands healed
like for the first time
cause I'm usually like banging his line like yo
what did they say about this opponent
what did they say when's the next day
you know just trying to get after it
and I I was telling my buddy
I'm like
I'm okay with just being here doing this right now
you know I
I don't have that unhealthy
relationship to the sport anymore
and I
I was almost envious of some of my friends that just
they're okay to just wake up and do the same thing
and they're not super ambitious and they're not um
like we experience very different things right
like they've never experienced
uh knocking somebody out in a packed
out crowd of 11,000 people
or they've never they've never like
they gotta clock in for the rest of their life
you know and like they have a boss and like
they've never experienced some of the things
I've experienced so it's easy for me to say that
but like they might I
I don't know I
I look at some of these people and I go man
I'm like I almost crave that um
just like yeah man
like
just gonna work and get off and maybe jump on the game
or like
I'm gonna go play ultimate Frisbee with my buddy
or like I'm gonna take my girl out to this thing
and like there's just like
they're just okay with that thing
you know
and and I'm sure if I lived that life I would hate it
you know but sometimes I'm like man
I wonder what it would be like to not have that thing
that you're constantly chasing
cause it's oops sorry
it's
it's a it can be tiresome like it's mentally draining
I was talking about
with my buddy on the way here about like burnout
and like
sometimes you just wanna like
sit on the couch and do nothing
and like that's
goes against everything that
we've ever done for the last 10 years
but like I was telling them in this past couple weeks
bro like the season I've been in is just like
I've been just wanted to sit on the couch
like do my bare minimum workouts
like keep the body where it needs to be
do my rehabs this and the third
and I don't want to put in extra hours in the gym
I don't want to do the extra runs
I don't want to do anything extra
I just want to sit on the couch and watch a
binge watch a movie or like movie series or whatever
like it's crazy where
like performing at this level where it takes your mind
because sometimes it's like
who am I thinking this way
you know what I mean
like how long can I actually put up with this
this type of uh
intensity I guess
you know like chase
like what you said
like chasing that goal or being excited about something
like for me excitement about something turns into like
here's a million checklist of what I have to do to be
successful in that thing you know
and that kind of yeah
kind of can drain you sometimes
yeah I think it's so vital to have some sort of
avenue for play that is not performance like oriented
yeah for me
like I I go skateboarding because there's no
first of all I go when there's nobody there
I go at sunrise and um
and I got all my pads on cause like
I'm not a great skateboarder
like my coolest trick is not getting hurt
it's a good trick and I can't even do that trick
so like but I can roll around the bowl
I can roll out of the bowl
I can get a little bit of air
you know I can go off the little kicker ramps and like
you know there's no element to where I'm like no
I need to get you know
this many reps or this you know
I have to land these tricks
no it's just about having fun and checking out
and you know
even in jiu jitsu you know
I'm like alright
I wanna be able to
I wanna hit this submission today somehow right
like
you know just we
we we gamify everything
and then we start to slowly and silently
align our identity with this performance right
you know and it's like no
you don't need to be evaluated yeah
yeah it can just be play yeah
you know and honestly
you know I'm not gonna lie
I mean my wife and uh
all of the struggles that we've had in
with our going you know
raising these babies and and postpartum
like depression and hormone swings and all this stuff
has been a great catalyst for me to
lean into this play thing
yeah and like alright
I gotta stay grounded and for me
the secret weapon is play
you know so like
when I whenever I'm
this is cool because I get to bring in whoever I want
right right
and as long as they're willing to come in
which I've been really delighted at how many people say
yes yeah
I think nobody's awesome almost nobody is said no
and I'm like oh cool
this person's coming in but um
but I get to learn from them and I get to like
you know like feed
it doesn't take me much motivation to feed off
of somebody else like just a little bit goes a long way
cause I'm I'm not
I'm internally motivated right
but um
this aspect of play for me has been um
such a secret weapon and being able to like
blow off steam in a healthy way yeah
you know
I feel like I'm still moving the needle in my soul
you know yeah
and um
I don't know that's I
I relate a lot to you know
the musicians uh
and the producers because they
like I said there's this stubbornness
right that comes about like
no this is
this is who I am I'm gonna build my life around that
yeah and uh
there is so much play
but also I've noticed music producers and stuff
I'm asking people like hey
what do you do outside of music right
because you can't just be that like yeah
you still have to be able to unplug and check
you know and people like to cook
they like to travel like
there's all these other kind of human interests that
you know we can connect over but um
I always like to see I
I'm always just curious how people play yeah
outside of the cause
cause they're typically high performers
yeah you know
I'm not generally
uh so far everybody I've had in
you know
they're all pretty high achieving
independent minded uh
people that I find fascinating
and I don't know it's just kind of cool
to see all the different flavors come together
yeah
I think I'm learning that right now
what you're talking about with play
I think I'm learning that right now
and I don't think I would have um
I probably wouldn't have Learned that if I didn't lose
so I lost my last fight split decision
and I was like almost relieved because I was just like
I was ranked No. 2 in the world
if I won that fight I probably would have been in line
like one more for a title shot
become a world champion and that was like one of my big
what still is one of my big goals
but I got knocked down to No. 4 in the rankings
and I was just like
okay like
I'm not immediately under the microscope for
a title shot you know
like every fight is important
but like the next couple were like super important
now I've like probably added another fight onto my um
my road to the title and I just was like
I've been experimenting with like that play aspect
because it's like in fighting
there's a lot of things
like if you kind of get bored or
or it starts getting mundane or whatever
that's where the real growth starts happening
but you can't live in that for too long
so like if you're doing MMA
you could focus on so many aspects of the game
like I'm just focusing on jiu jitsu
and even that that's a multi layer
there's a million things you could focus on
in jiu jitsu right
wrestling it could be offensive wrestling
defensive wrestling chain wrestling and striking
uh defending striking and wrestling like it's so much
and then you could so you can switch between striking
uh Muay Thai boxing kickboxing
jiu jitsu wrestling MMA as a whole wall work
defensive subs sweeps you
can kind of change it up all the time
and now with boxing
like my wings are a little bit clipped
to where I can just focus on different footworks
or different defenses
or how I throw different punches or whatever
so um
I've been like craving that like play
like what like
the thing that I've been most excited for in the past
eight weeks has been going to play
ultimate Frisbee with all my friends
cause I haven't played in like 10 years
and it's been so fun cause I don't care like it's yes
performance based obviously
but like it's not like I'm a paychecks on the line
if I make a touchdown
you're not gonna be bummed if you miss the throw
and nobody's gonna be let down
no right
no and it's been so fun
I've been more excited for that
yeah and this is like all new for me
like this is new in the last two months
so I've been more excited for that
then even going back to practice
yeah'cause it's there's no
there's no crazy pressure and stress
so like the play aspect is something that I like
have to like really look at my
my life and go
how much how much am I really putting into this
you know yeah
because I don't think there's a lot of time
if you're working a full time job
and you're training full time
I don't think there's a lot of time
for play you know
you're clocking 40 hours a week at the job
and then you're getting your training in also
you know my days would look like
7:30 in the morning to 9:30 at night
every night and I was like
not a lot of time for play
you know so now
now that that's not my reality anymore
that I need to like find something
you know yeah
well I mean
obviously
anybody that's super discipline or like a high
high achiever they think like there's an inter
internal voice that's probably pretty harsh says
you gotta be doing more you gotta be hustling
you can't take a day off you kidding me
like your opponent is not taking a day off
yeah you know
and um
I don't know I have been experimenting now
you know hey if
if uh
Michael Jordan you know
and George ST Pierre they can have sports psychologist
like maybe there's something to like
getting your head right in the game
and figuring out
what the most important thing really is
yeah Jesus has been a big part of that in my life
no doubt
uh I plug this book all the time
The Ruthless Elimination of hurry hmm
um by Comer
you gotta check that out but like this concept of uh
of why am I rushing through life yeah
you know on all these different facets and just
you know why can't I just take a break
oh I can
I can just I can just have a complete day off
have a Sabbath where I'm not focused on performance
I'm not focused on moving the needle
I'm not focused on making money yeah
um I can just be and it's a good thing
you know um
goes against everything that
for years and years and years
if you're a high performer
it goes against everything
it makes it almost makes your skin crawl yeah
it almost like oh my god
I don't want to lose my edge
like I've yeah I've built it
I've built this empire of whatever this way
I don't want to switch it
you know what I mean so it's yeah
it's interesting I have to check that book out
I definitely have to check that book out
it's it's just a like
if you get too interwoven in this idea of oh go
go go
go go
I feel like I'm gonna look up and just be 80 years old
going going
going
like I had a conversation with my buddy and I was like
man I think
you know a lot of humans
I think that they are just distracting themselves from
the fact that they're gonna die one day
like this is a big hamster wheel
and we are just distracting ourselves
from the fact that we're gonna die
and it's funny because a lot of other cultures
it's the opposite like not really in this culture
but like in a lot of other cultures
like the very first depiction of like
a human skull comes from these group of monks
and now this is what we were talking about today
have you heard this this analogy actually
Kumar talks about having a skull on his desk skull bro
that's crazy bro it's so cool and it's like
you know what I don't know
I think it said like I might butcher it
but it's like where you are
I once was and where I am
you soon will be something something along those lines
right and it's like yeah
it's that's probably what I am referencing
that's crazy man and it's um
yeah what was that one book that I was reading
um I might have been from the same guy honestly
if that's the same story
but it was it didn't it was not that book but anyways
like all of that that shifting of perspective of like
yeah you are gonna die one day
kind of embracing that
instead of just getting on the hamster wheel of like
distractions yeah
it's easy to distract yourself
you know it's like
and sometimes I think you know that you're doing it
you know and you know it's not good for you
it's like being a drug addict like you know
this is not good for me but it's
the detox process is a lot harder to like
pull yourself out of that reality
and really take an inventory of your life
so I think a lot of people are just like
screw it bro
I'm just gonna keep on this mindset yeah
snooze yeah
straight up
it reminded me too of like the recent interviews with
uh Max Holloway talking about how much he was sparring
you know he's not sparring at all right
he's like I'm surfing more
he's like I've been doing this for whatever 20 years
I know what I need to be doing
and he had you know
great per great performance
uh this was after Olivera right
who do you fight after Olivera
um geichie
where he knocked him out oh
in the last second of that after yeah
that was I think so yeah
yeah so that
that that inspires me too
cause just we don't know how much there is to gain
by getting our head right yeah
you know um
versus just piling on more abuse
you know yeah
it's so funny that you're saying that man
that was like
the biggest breakthrough in my career was like
realize like I
I was the first person in the gym
I was the last person to leave
my schedule was freak like you would think I'm a freak
bro like my calendar
like it was for MMA right
it had it was
every single second of my day was just so scheduled
like little things like
like like
I had a couple times where I was in an MMA fight
and I had a choke and I had my arms gas out
so like I put it in my calendar
like I would do these squeezes on
these foam roller squeezes and do this
and with my legs and like everything
and I was working an office job
so I literally did the bare minimum on the office job
filled it with everything like visualization
whimhoff breathing like everything
and when I stopped doing all of that
I my performance skyrocketed and it was insane
and I was just like in my head
I have to do more more more more
more more
and there was just like it was awesome
because I built something that was really
really really good and firm and and solid
and it was like my my game was solid
and here's a here's me and here's the game that I built
and there's no bridge
like I was like I couldn't access that
so I was just like dude I need to access
I need to put some time into like the bridge
cause my performances were nothing like practice
and I had a I had a like separation
like I didn't I wasn't in control of myself
when I was in competition
so like I was like I need to focus on this
and that's pretty much what I what I did
like you talked about a mind coach
like I listen to every single
podcast that I could about
mental preparation and performance
and read every book that I could about
like the greats um
like
what's that one book called um
it talks about being a cleaner versus um
it's by like LeBron James basketball coach Tim Grover
um it was just a
it was it was incredible book anyways
but like I read all these books about like
like knowing oneself or
or our mindset of high performers
and like through that process of like
really learning about that kind of thing
my performance skyrocketed
and it was obviously
accumulation of learning about that stuff
and then also building this
but like
there's so much to be said about
just doing it the right way
and not just doing more of it yeah
you know like if you just slap on three plates of
of some weight you can probably get it up
but like
you can probably get way more up if you just did the
spent more time on just like the
the form and the technique
and I feel like I had to do that with my career of like
figure out what's going on in your head
you know that's way harder than
it's easier to spend an extra 45 minutes in the gym
yeah you know
like it's it's insane
that's constant little adjustments man
yeah
I read a book uh
called thank you for being late
it was talking about how all of the world's
technological innovations
typically came as a result of some sort of interruption
and somebody had unexpected white space to ponder
something interesting and as you know
I used to identify as a full time songwriter
and I would never shame myself by taking like
the weekend off to go look for inspiration
and go write hmm
you know but I had time for white space
where there's just nothing on my calendar
I could just think and be
and that's where your greatest
revelations and epiphanies come from
that's where the wisdom is kind of solidified
the internal wisdom it's interesting
and you know
I I challenge you man
if if there's anything I could challenge John
be like hey
try to do less yeah
yeah try or just make space
cause your most special
valuable piece of your whole entity is your critical
problem solving creative abilities right
right and when every 15 second
15 minute interval is crammed with stuff
there's no space to just kind of be yeah
and ponder and uh
I don't know I'm always trying
you know we're all trying to life hack or whatever yeah
max out everything that we can
you know yeah dude
um a part of that is like do less and like enjoy it
it almost stresses me out like to have a cat
like if I I
so I have like obviously my calendar on my wall
and then I have on my phone
and I have it in my notes app
and I just have Monday through Sunday and every day
if I don't have something on there
I'm almost like subconsciously like
alright I need to fill this with something like
what is something that I've been like
putting off that I could put
I'll put that on that day
OK cool
and like
and the next thing you know I look at my calendar
I'm like oh
my week's full like yeah
you know what I mean
like it's it's slapped full of stuff so it's like
there's there's there's gotta be something to that
you know well
I know some CEOs that will
they'll just book an appointment on their calendar
for white space every day
wow so just carve it out and then no
it won't get booked it won't get filled right
yeah that's a good that's a really good point yeah
that's crazy did uh
so nothing yet booked no
no you heal up
you gotta heal up first yeah
yeah gotta heal up um I got a call
like a week ago about some
a really big opportunity and he was like
my agent was like how's your hand doing
pretty good I got some news for you and I was like
oh shoot let's go
what what's the news
and it's in January um
nothing signed yet
we're kind of like starting the process of like
contract negotiation
finding the opponents and all this stuff
but I think it's gonna be really cool
um definitely be a big fight um
when's this gonna air um
probably not for another eight
10 weeks oh
eight or 10 weeks okay cool
yeah so I think um
I keep it here also actually
you know what I'll just tell you off the camera
cause I don't wanna get in trouble
but yeah it's a super cool opportunity um
and it'll be in January so nice
I'm like
I'm looking at getting some uh
this thing called a bone stimulator that like
it helps a fracture heal a little bit faster
um luckily I'm
I'm just like I was saying
I'm partnered with some of the best people um
like I'm getting PRP shots and
and and helping
helping the hand grow
and in the joints in the hand strengthen up
like
Barbara Orthopedics is always hooking me up with like
the top level care um
so I'm gonna be back in the ring
a lot quicker than I thought
um nice
but January should be the
the next one well
I can't wait to see what comes dude
Nathan Rivera thanks for doing this dude
thanks for having me thanks for coming
it's been a blast bro
I'm super proud of you thank you brother
I can't wait to see what happens and follow you
follow you along your crazy journey
yeah it's crazy to me
you're freaking bare knuckle boxer um
but I'm fascinated I'm inspired dude
thank you so much man
absolutely thank you bro
God bless you brother
absolutely bro
thank you dog
thanks man
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